New to BBB, couple questions

[nitz369]

I am a new pool owner and new to BBB. I bought a house in Las Vegas and have started by bringing water to a pool store, they are very helpful with any questions that I have and I have learned a lot from them. But of course I start reading forums and some information is conflicting.

1. Liquid bleach/chlorine. I understand every pool is different, so far it seems to make the chlorine right I generally need 1lb bag of "shock" every week. It hasn't been summer yet. The Pool store says checking water weekly is fine, and suggested quick check before jumping in, but don't need to mess with it everyday and shouldn't need to test daily either. Unless of course you have heavy usage. Is this true? The main question is a bag of shock costs me $2.50, so I guess is I switch to BBB it would seem I would spend more money on bleach when I have done some calculations. Does this make sense?

2. If I switch to BBB, should I still float 3" tabs?

3. Pool store says liquid chlorine raise pH levels, Here in Nevada the water is very hard and pH is constantly on the rise, generally using acid weekly to lower it. So if I switch the BBB won't adding liquid chlorine just outweigh the acid and make the chlorine inefficient anyhow? Is there truth to what I was told? Generally before I add "shock" I add Acid first, wait a few hours then shock.

4. I have been reading about CYA and understand the only way to remove CYA is to drain partially. Pool store says water last 2-3 seasons before draining anyhow, i understand by adding "shock" it raises CYA correct? So adding liquid chlorine does not do this?

Before you say it I am ordering my TFT100 kit today.

 

[JasonLion]

Welcome to TFP!

1) If you are "floating 3 inch tabs" then you are adding chlorine more than once a week. You need to count the tabs as part of the cost that bleach will replace. It is really a good idea to test the water more often than once a week. Without regular testing it is easy for the water to get out of balance and for costly problems to develop.

2) No, the 3" tabs are chlorine and you can use bleach instead.

3) No, liquid bleach does not raise PH. The tablets are lowering the PH, which bleach does not do. So switching from tablets to bleach will allow the PH to rise more if there are other processes raising the PH. If your PH tends to rise even with tablets you will need to use more acid with bleach.

4) Bleach does not add any CYA. Many people using tablets can go one season without CYA problems, and a few can go two or three. But then you need to replace most of the water. With bleach you won't get into that cycle at all and won't need to replace any water because of CYA.

What happens with tablets is that everything is fine for some period of time, possibly years but more often less than one full season, and then there are major problems with algae and you have to replace lots of water. By using BBB you get out of that cycle and can have clean water all the time.

BBB should cost about the same (if you ignore the problems that occasionally come up with tablets, which can be expensive). To do a complete comparison you need to look at everything you are currently spending, tablets, shock, algaecide, etc. Usually almost all of that can be replaced with bleach and acid with only very occasional use of other chemicals.

BBB is a little more work every day. But it saves you lots and lots of work on those occasions when you would have had problems with tablets.

 

[duraleigh]

Before you say it I am ordering my TFT100 kit today

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! :lol: :lol:

Nitz,

As always, many of your answers are "It depends"


1. Liquid bleach/chlorine. I understand every pool is different, so far it seems to make the chlorine right I generally need 1lb bag of "shock" every week. It hasn't been summer yet. The Pool store says checking water weekly is fine, and suggested quick check before jumping in, but don't need to mess with it everyday and shouldn't need to test daily either. Unless of course you have heavy usage. Is this true? The main question is a bag of shock costs me $2.50, so I guess is I switch to BBB it would seem I would spend more money on bleach when I have done some calculations. Does this make sense?

Not really. Think of shock as a process you do to your pool rather than a product. It's a verb. Shocking is almost always a super dose of chlorine that allows your pool to reach "breakpoint" chlorination levels which clears up many latent contaminates. By keeping your pool well-balanced and at adequate chlorine levels, the contaminants never develop and you simply have no need to shock

2. If I switch to BBB, should I still float 3" tabs?

It depends on your CYA (stabilizer) level. Did they give you those results?

3. Pool store says liquid chlorine raise pH levels, Here in Nevada the water is very hard and pH is constantly on the rise, generally using acid weekly to lower it. So if I switch the BBB won't adding liquid chlorine just outweigh the acid and make the chlorine inefficient anyhow? Is there truth to what I was told? Generally before I add "shock" I add Acid first, wait a few hours then shock.

Nope. addition of Cl is a zero sum to pH...it has no affect.

4. I have been reading about CYA and understand the only way to remove CYA is to drain partially. Pool store says water last 2-3 seasons before draining anyhow, i understand by adding "shock" it raises CYA correct? So adding liquid chlorine does not do this?

Depending on the chemical used to shock, it can add CYA and usually does. Liquid Cl has no CYA in it.

My plan is to NEVER drain my pool. There are some circumstances where it may become necessary but 2-3 years doesn't make much sense.

 

[duraleigh]

Okay, Jason, that's it!! I'm taking typing lessons so I can get in a post before you do!! I was crestfallen when I submitted and saw you beat me once again. :lol: :lol:

 

[JasonLion]

Are you talking about me? :slidehalo: That post was up for half an hour before I replied. It may take more than typing lessons. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[nitz369]

Okay I understand. So by using 6% bleach I shouldn't have any problems with pH levels because of that, plus I won't need to buy a big bucket of cl tabs.

When I get my kit I assume I can easily test Cl, and pH levels easily daily to get a feel for what my pool is doing day to day right? Once I understand a little more it will get easier I assume.

When I add bleach how long before you can go in?
When I add acid how long before you can go in?

my original post I put "shock" in quotes because I understand it is a verb sold you as a product. So when I shock what I am essentially doing is raising cl levels to say 3-5ppm and by the end of the week it is down to less than 1ppm, then shock again correct? I am guessing on numbers but is that why they are saying only need to check weekly? So by using BBB daily or every other day or whatever I will be maintaining cl levels instead of the roller coaster correct?

 

[duraleigh]

Okay I understand. So by using 6% bleach I shouldn't have any problems with pH levels because of that, plus I won't need to buy a big bucket of cl tabs. That's correct

When I get my kit I assume I can easily test Cl, and pH levels easily daily to get a feel for what my pool is doing day to day right? Once I understand a little more it will get easier I assume. Yes, most people start out daily, soon go to three times a week and very soon to once a week for Cl and pH and then once a month for the remainder of the tests

When I add bleach how long before you can go in? Virtually immediately
When I add acid how long before you can go in? Give it an hour or so...pump running

my original post I put "shock" in quotes because I understand it is a verb sold you as a product. So when I shock what I am essentially doing is raising cl levels to say 3-5ppm and by the end of the week it is down to less than 1ppm, then shock again correct? I am guessing on numbers but is that why they are saying only need to check weekly? So by using BBB daily or every other day or whatever I will be maintaining cl levels instead of the roller coaster correct? Essentially, that's correct. You were maintaining Cl with the pucks but they were/are adding CYA and, if your CYA has gotten too high, you will be maintaining Cl with liquid chlorine. Again, depending on your CYA level, the numbers will be quite a bit higher than you estimated.........maybe 2-4ppm daily and perhaps 15ppm if you ever need to shock

 

[nitz369]

Well I will give you my CYA reading soon, but from what the pool store is saying it would seem my CYA is very low. They keep saying how beautiful the water is and how perfect it is.

I just put in "Quad Shock" yesterday because the FC and TC were off, when this happens using BBB what do you do?

 

[duraleigh]

FC and TC are chlorine......you simply calculate how much you need to bring those numbers back up to normal and put it in. I know this is just a little overwhelming at first but the learning curve is really steep....this will become second nature to you soon.

It is important to understand that BBB is NOT a different method from what you are now doing. BBB is primarily gaining an understanding of pool water chemistry and doing a better and cheaper job than the pool store is currently doing for you. You will find that to gain this understanding you'll have to be able to test your water accurately.

Once that's done, Your new found knowledge of your pool water will allow you precise control over your pool and allow you to purchase most things to maintain it from the grocery store. (not everything) As Jason said, slightly (perhaps) more work on your part but a thorough understanding of your pool and how to fix any water quality issues before they become a problem.

 

[nitz369]

I totally understand, but my question was up until the other day my FC and TC have been the same, if the FC is less than TC it means the chlorine is actively working on killing something off. I get all that. My question was if those numbers are different what do I do? I bought "quad Shock" but don't know what is different about it, but the pool store said you only use it when you FC and TC are different.

 

[JasonLion]

TC minus FC is called combined chlorine, CC. When CC is above 0.5 you should shock the pool. That means raising the FC level to shock level and holding it there until CC is back down and FC holds overnight. Any form of chlorine will work to shock the pool, though slow dissolving forms like trichlor need to be pre-dissolved, which is a pain so trichlor is not normally used to shock.

The problem with products like "quad Shock" is that they frequently contain things you don't want along with the things you do want. One of the big advantages of bleach is that it only contains things you want to be adding to the pool. All of those "extra feature" chemicals sometimes help but more often than not they can cause new problems by adding things you don't want added to the pool (and have no reason to be paying for).

 

[Butterfly]

nitz369, Welcome to TFP!

When you have some time, how about adding your pool info in your signature. Later, if you should have questions, it will be easier for folks to post an answer.

Congrats on ordering your TF Test kit. You will love it and it will save you $$$. Post some pix for us!

 

[Poolscout]

How is your pool chemistry going?

I too am a new Vegas Pool owner and have been playing the B game (Bleach and Muriatic Acid) since December...havn't done the other 2 B's yet...This summer should be a trial...thinking about a liquidator or some other automatic method to add chemicals...?