Still cloudy, Saving my disaster

[newby12]

First off thanks for all the help so far. The bleach shock worked great and my pool has gone from the black lagoon to almost ready for the swim season. I've kept the Chlorine levels at 10 ppm since because the water is not yet crystal clear.
The water still has a white haze to it but no hint of green at at all. I suspect that there is still a small amount of DE suspended in the water. I changed to a cartridge type filter from and old DE about 2 weeks ago and have been brushing and vacuming every other day. The water is mostly clear, I can see all the way to the bottom. It looks fairly clear during the day but not crystal. At night when I turn the pool lights on I can see that there is definedly suspended particles still there. I have been running the filter continuously since I changed out the filter. The Ph is 7.6 right now.
Is it possible for some DE to pass through a cartridge filter? I thoroughly spray out the cartridge when the pressure has gotten 10 psi greater than when clean. I can't seem to get the water any cleaner at this point. Is this a time to use a clarifier? I have been holding off and don't want to add any more chemicals than necessary.

 

[Guest]

I would give it another week (you need POP--pool owner patience) and if it does not clear use a chitosan based clarifer like Sea Klear, not a polymeric one. The chitosan clarifiers, usually called 4 in 1 or natural clarifiers, work much better with cartridge filters.

 

[duraleigh]

Newby,

Your problem might not be DE. Do you have test results for Cl, T/A, CH and, importantly, CYA?

 

[newby12]

Duraleigh,
Here are my test numbers:

Cl, 10ppm
T/A 220
CYA at least 100
CH, not tested,
Ph, 7.5

 

[duraleigh]

CYA at least 100

Ouch!! That may well be your issue. With CYA that high chlorine becomes much less effective. I don't know how high over 100ppm you are but to effectively shock your pool, you need at least 25ppm of Cl and possibly more. That will probably clear your pool.

Secondly, I suggest you get your CYA down to a manageable level.....around 50ppm or so. You'll have to drain 1/2 your pool and refill but, unless you do, I think you will continue to have water issues all summer.

Read in the "Stickies" section about the relationship between CYA and Cl. If you are using trichlor pucks to chlorinate....stop.

Once you get that CYA manageable, you'll be able to keep your pool clear with 3-5ppm Cl but you need to stay around 10ppm with your current CYA.

 

[newby12]

Well that sucks,
The whole point of trying the BBB was to avoid having to drain and refill. Oh well, How could the CYA get so high. The only thing I can think of was I had my wife throw a couple of old trichlor pucks in the floater during the first week of shocking, thinking that with two young kids about she would forget to add the bleach everyday. I had to be away for business for a few days and forgot to take them out until after a full week.
Ok, so drain off the pool and refill. I suppose I need to shock again.

 

[waste]

OK, let's all take a step back for a moment and rethink this

Depending on how cloudy the pool water is, it may be effecting the cya reading (we're looking for clear water to turn cloudy with the cya test- if the water is cloudy to begin, you may be getting a 'false high' ) You say that only a little cya (via tabs) has been added, while it's true that some cya will 'cling' to pipes and pool surfaces (even with a full drain) it's a little hard to believe that enough for a reading of 100 ppm would still be in the water (*** I just reread your other post and I suppose that from years of build-up the cya could still be over 100) You switched to BBB to prevent having to drain part of the water and refill, but if the turbitity of the pool water isn't enough to throw off the cya test - I fear you may have to do a partial drain and refill

1 other thing, I would clean the carts when the pressure rose 5 psi (I know it's hard to catch them that quickly when the pool is a swamp 8) ) but it will make the rinsing of them easier and extend the cart's life (not as much stuff will become so embedded that it can't be removed with a hose)

Please keep us posted on the progress, and we'll keep trying to help :-D

 

[Guest]

Like I said give it a a week and see what happens! During that week apply a liberal dose of POP (Pool Owner Patience) to yourself daily!!!!! Dead algae will make the water cloudy and can take a week or so to filter out!
As to your CYA, if you have been using trichlor in the past it is very possible that your CYA is through the roof and you WILL need to drain and refill! One step at a time. Give it a week and see if the pool clears then we can look at your CYa more closely.

Also, test the CH. If it is high you might have some calcium precipitating out causing the cloudiness. If you read the stickies about what info we need and then post it we can help you much better! :-D

 

[newby12]

Thanks guys I will keep you posted. I am going to take my water in for testing at the local pool suppliy store. I hope they can give me more complete numbers.

 

[duraleigh]

Hello to everyone who's posted in this and Newby12's other thread,

First, Newby12, I hope you're not offended by anything in this post.....it's almost more of an "internal memo" to us regular posters.

Overall, these two threads are a little confusing and drawn out and, in hindsight, could've been made more clear. Please don't anyone take offense....my only point is we are gonna' see hundreds of these situations starting very soon and I think we can handle them a little more concisely.

Having two threads was confusing. Newby, you should've kept your story in one thread for continuity and us regulars should have noticed you had two threads and got one of the mods to consolidate your info.

When pH of 8.2+ was reported, we should've addressed that first and then when, the pH "went down on it's own" (which it can't) to 7.4, we all (except newby12) knew we were dealing with inadequate testing. Jason posted up pretty early that accurate advice was impossible without valid test results (esp. CYA) but we all (me included) just kept posting away and essentially guessing at the problem.

If you reread the entire threads, it's pretty easy to see that Newby12 has been equally interested in his filter and other somewhat peripheral issues as his water quality so the thread frequently lost it's focus.

Again, we're gonna get tons of these situations this summer and to really give effective advice, I think we have to emphasize the importance of complete and accurate test results. All of us know how simple it is to quickly clear a pool when the test results give us a snapshot of the current conditions.

Last, Newby12, you don't have to drain your pool if you don't want to. That said, your posted test results suggest that is the best course and will save you money. If your current CYA test is accurate, you will have to raise your Cl level significantly and keep it there all summer long. Virtually all your other issues are easier to deal with if your CYA is back in a more workable range but, as long as you gain an understanding of your pool water chemistry, you can deal with it right where it is.

How did it get so high? (if it is) That's easy....someone put it in there. The two pucks you added are insignificant. Either over a very long period of time using pucks or thru inadvertent dosage, someone has put too much CYA in your pool.....it can't get there on it's own.

Taking your pool water in for testing is a good idea but don't be assured you can trust the results. This forum (and the old PF) is full of years of inaccurate pool store testing. Nevertheless, I would do that and post those numbers up here so you can at least compare.

Who could not construe this a post slanted towards selling test kits? I am by nature very skeptical and would have to agree. If you're interested in a little due diligence, go back to the archives of the old PF and read what I say about test kits from 1999-2006....before I even considered making and selling one. I consistently "hammered" the fact that posts without accurate test results could only yield guesses. I still maintain that premise.

 

[newby12]

Durleigh,
Thanks for the clarification. I posted different threads as I felt they were of different topics, ultimately its all water chemistry so its all related. I will stay on this thread till I get where I need to be with the water. I took a water sample in for testing today, I did not take a big enough sample so I only got a few tests done. According to their testing:

Cl 5.0 ppm
Ph 7.8
TA 150 ppm
CYA 100 ppm
phosphates 0



Thanks again for all the help.

 

[JasonLion]

With that high CYA level you need to keep your FC level around 10. The actual level might be higher than what the pool store says because FC tends to vanish on the way to the store. But that doesn't always happen and it might indeed be low. I would add some more chlorine as soon as possible.