Difference in DE filter models?

[Locksmythe]

Could someone explain the difference between these two Pentair items?

Pentair SMBW 4000 Series 58 sq. ft. D.E. Filter - Part #: 147411

Pentair FNS Plus 60 sq. ft. D.E. Filter - Part #: 180009

 

[Bama Rambler]

The housings are made of different materials and the internals are designed differently.
Also, the ports are in different places.

 

[PSW]

Hey Locksmyth,

These models are very similar, but DO have a few minor differences.

The two that are most notable (to me) are...
The FNS has a higher flow rate (150 vs 116 GPM)
The SMBW comes with the valve included, and the FNS does not.

I will send you data sheets for both via PM. Cheers!

 

[Locksmythe]

I guess I should have been more specific in that I wanted to know how I would chose one over the other. What benefits are there given that they are about the same price and same technology. I do have a relatively new DE multiport valve so (also pentair) so i guess the SMBW one would be redundant. I'll have to measure the port locations to see if one is an easier retrofit.

 

[PSW]

I would recommend the FNS as long as the port locations work with your set-up. The flow rate is higher by a fairly significant amount!

 

[Locksmythe]

Hmm, in reading the manual I can't see how the SMWB is plumbed in at all. Must not be the right thing to consider.

But the Quad DE with cartridges does seen similar in fitment, so I guess I should be comparing # 188592 to # 180009.

I think I have 2 inch fittings at the filter side of my multiport, but I will definitely have to measure placement again.

 

[PSW]

I see your current filter is 48sqft DE...what is the make and model?

 

[Locksmythe]

Not entirely sure. KDI American 584060 might be what the faded label says. I inherited it from previous owner.

 

[PSW]

Would it be possible to snap a few quick pictures? If possible, a shot of the whole unit, one of the label, one of the ports, and one of your equip pad? I could get a better idea of your set-up and (hopefully) have a good recommendation for ya!

 

[Locksmythe]

current appears to be model 584090 made by American Products for Sylvan Pools.

There isn't much space to move it at all so if the new unit is bigger I will have to replumb. The grids are ready for replacement but I thought I would consider a new unit if it would make my life easier.

 

[Beez]

FWIW, I like the fact that your existing filter has a SS housing. My FNS Plus is weathered fiberglass. It makes me itch just looking at it.

 

[PSW]

Alright, let me see what info I can find out about that unit. I will try to get you dimensions for that unit and all of the units you are considering!

Edit: American Products went out of business but Pentair appears stock replacement parts. Unicel might also have info on that unit because they make filters. I will give both companies a call first thing tomorrow and let you know what I find out!

 

[PSW]

Just got off the phone with Pentair and this is what I found out...

Your filter is an American Products Titan 48sqft #58409000
Your ports are 2" and measure 8" center-to-center
the diameter of that unit is 21"
The one measurement Pentair could not find was the distance from the ground to the center of the bottom port (hopefully you could measure this)

The FNS and Quad DE both have 2" ports that measure 7.5" center-to-center
Both are 21.5" in diameter (but would be taller than your unit)
The center of the bottom port to the ground is 8"

Pentair is confident that either would be a good replacement for you. The retrofitting would be pretty minimal, and the plumbing you have should have enough 'give' to make it easy. In either case, you will need a new backwash valve (but you probably already knew that).

Hope this info helps! Let me know if you have any more questions!!

On a side note...if you are upgrading some/most of your equipment, you might want to take a look as some VS or VF pumps. You will save a lot of energy (and money) compared to your current single speed pump. Since you are leaning towards Pentair for everything else, I would do the same for the pump! :-D

 

[Locksmythe]

I very much appreciate your research. I looked for a way to contact Pentair directly but had no success.

I don't understand why I would need a new backwash valve. Is that something different from the Pentair DE multiport I have now? It is fine other than the broken plastic handle. Pentair sent me a replacement for the handle already, actually, but I may try to fashion one of aluminum rather than break another plastic one.

 

[PSW]

Backwash valves vary quite a bit from filter to filter, so it is always recommended that you buy a new (matching) valve when you buy a new filter. Differences can include install type (threaded vs clamp-style), plumbing, and the distance between ports.

For example, the valves for the Quad DE and FNS are the same distance between ports, but the inlet/outlet plumbing is completely reversed. The Quad valve would NOT work for the FNS, and the FNS valve would NOT work for the Quad.

Depending on which model you went with, these are the part numbers for the appropriate valves.

Quad DE
261050 – 2” Hi-Flo
261055 – 2” Multi-Port

FNS PLUS
261142 – 2” Hi-Flo
261152 – 2” Multi-Port

 

[Locksmythe]

Ah, turns out mine is a lesser model, I guess. 50181212

 

[Locksmythe]

I think it may be best to leave the filter and replace the assembly, as I don't want to do that extensive a replumbing exercise until we move the pad. Where would I look up the right replacement parts? I have found plenty of parts sites showing parts available but they don't list model numbers for which the parts are a match. Is it just the SS Titan 48 sqft, and they are all the same? the assmbly pictures do appear to match.

 

[Beez]

I think it may be best to leave the filter and replace the assembly, as I don't want to do that extensive a replumbing exercise until we move the pad. Where would I look up the right replacement parts? I have found plenty of parts sites showing parts available but they don't list model numbers for which the parts are a match. Is it just the SS Titan 48 sqft, and they are all the same? the assmbly pictures do appear to match.

That's exactly what I would do as long as the SS housing is still in good shape.

I like PoolPlaza.com for this type of reference. They sell complete assemblies as well. Keep us posted with your progress!

 

[Locksmythe]

Thank you. That was the one I found in my search as well. I wrote them to confirm the model match.