Thanks for the info. I have looked for more info on this in pool school and can't find it. It says to put the stabalizer in a sock in the skimmer, and for some other things is says spread them over the surface of the deep end, but I can't find anything that tells me which things absolutely should not go into the skimmer and why.
Why not use Trichlor tablets if CYA is low?
- Thread starter TomAtlanta
- Start date
Most all chemicals should go in front of the return EDIT: See my followup post...Not all chemicals go in front of the return!/EDIT. This pool school article has where to put recommendations: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/recommended_pool_chemicals
By the way, I put my CYA in sock that I leave in front of my return. Then when I am swimming, I can easily give it a little squeeze from time to time.
By the way, I put my CYA in sock that I leave in front of my return. Then when I am swimming, I can easily give it a little squeeze from time to time.
Thanks. I will put in all chemicals in front of the return.
But I am just curious. What bad thing happens if you put them in the skimmer?
But I am just curious. What bad thing happens if you put them in the skimmer?
TomAtlanta, I should have said many chemicals should go in front of the return as a general statement. Please read the pool school article I linked for specifics for each chemical added. Sorry for the confusion.linen said:
I think the main reason to not add some chemicals to the skimmer is high concentration of for example bleach can cause issues with equipment (corrosion etc.). By putting them in front of the return, the flow of water breaks up the bolus of chemicals and disperses the concentration more quickly. Many of the liquid chemicals we add have a higher density then the pool water and therefore would have a tendency to drop to the bottom, coalesce and then possibly cause damage due to localized high concentration.
Generally, putting a big "slug" of chemistry (acid, chlorine, anyway) is just not good practice. Chances are no real harm but you really don't want to expose your system to that drastic change in chemistry being dumped in all at once.
For me, on the rare occassiona when I use Cal Hypo, I SLOWLY pour it into the skimmer and allow it to dissolve completely in the filter. By doing it s-l-o-w-ly, you don't subject your stuff to the "big slug" affect and then you don't have to worry about the Cal Hypo settling on your pool floor (I have a vinyl liner)
It says in the test kit that the CYA test is the most subjective. It sure is. The light in the room and the color of the floor effect my being able to see the dot in the bottom. Also, it is hard to say if I am seeing a slight shadow, or nothing. In spite of this, I could still tell with certainty that my CYA is somewhere between 20 and 30, so I guess that is close enough.
The really important aspect is consistency in testing.
If your results are off by 5, or 10, or even 20, by achieving repeatable results, you can manage the FC around it.
A hypothetical example - Let's say your CYA is 50, and you measure it to be 60. You set the dose for chlorine and, over time, realize that you loose more than you find acceptable to sunlight. You bump up the CYA to a measured 70 (which in reality may be 60) and that seems to work for you. Your story will be "60 didn't work for me, I had to run my CYA at 70", which is correct by your testing, and may differ from others' results, but allows you to manage your pool quite well. As long as your test results are consistent.
This is the hidden secret to doing your own testing.
If your results are off by 5, or 10, or even 20, by achieving repeatable results, you can manage the FC around it.
A hypothetical example - Let's say your CYA is 50, and you measure it to be 60. You set the dose for chlorine and, over time, realize that you loose more than you find acceptable to sunlight. You bump up the CYA to a measured 70 (which in reality may be 60) and that seems to work for you. Your story will be "60 didn't work for me, I had to run my CYA at 70", which is correct by your testing, and may differ from others' results, but allows you to manage your pool quite well. As long as your test results are consistent.
This is the hidden secret to doing your own testing.
That is what I found out using my TF100 test kit! 
In my case my chlorine was good at 50 CYA for the sunlight time my pool saw, but what helped me was testing my TA, in helping me control my pH going up all the time.
With Pool School instructions I was able to get my TA down from 120 to 90 and then my pH was very stable and stayed right in the 7.5-7.6 range.
Chuck
In my case my chlorine was good at 50 CYA for the sunlight time my pool saw, but what helped me was testing my TA, in helping me control my pH going up all the time.
With Pool School instructions I was able to get my TA down from 120 to 90 and then my pH was very stable and stayed right in the 7.5-7.6 range.
Chuck
One more question about Trichlor tablets. I understand the idea that if you use them all the time the CYA will get too high and eventually chlorine will not work. However, I know several pool owners who use them all the time and have never had this problem. Also, I have a friend who does pool maintenance full time and he said the only time he had seen CYA get too high was in public pools. If adding CYA to pool products is a big problem, why doesn't someone sell tablets without CYA in them?
There are cal-hypo tabs which do not introduce cya to the water, but I think they require a special feeder (by the way, do not put cal-hypo tabs in a feeder previously used for trichlor!!!) since they tend to breakdown too quickly. Of course, cal-hypo adds calcium.TomAtlanta said:
CYA isn't just something they add to the product - it's a feature of the production process. Unfortunately, all chlorination products add SOMETHING to the water. Dichlor and Trichlor add CYA. Cal-Hypo adds calcium. (And it doesn't go away. Water replacement [or reverse-osmosis treatment] is required to reduce both of those, BTW.) Sodium Hypochlorite adds a little bit of salt, but it's way less intrusive. In the interest of completeness, Lithium Hypochlorite doesn't seem to have much in the way of addition, but it's SO expensive that no one seems to have long-term experience with it.
I am confused. You are a moderator and say
On the other hand, JasonLion, a site admin, just said in another thread
You both know more than I do, and you are saying different things.
On the other hand, JasonLion, a site admin, just said in another thread
opening-pool-for-summer-issues-testing-for-cya-etc-t43663.html?hilit=cya%20winter
You both know more than I do, and you are saying different things.
You're right, I did use a generalization.
CYA, once added, doesn't typically reduce except from splashout and backwashing and consequent refilling, which removes water and replaces it w/ fresh. There have been some occasions where pools have been opened in the spring after being closed all winter, where the CYA levels have gone down after the FC is depleted. It tends to be the exception, rather than the rule, and we aren't real sure as to why it happens, though there appears to be a bacteria involved in the process. So it happens, but one can't count on it.
Also, as a general rule, problems stemming from high CYA manifest themselves during the swim season, rather than over the winter, and the fix, if one is expecting a fix while actually able to USE the pool, is water replacement.
CYA, once added, doesn't typically reduce except from splashout and backwashing and consequent refilling, which removes water and replaces it w/ fresh. There have been some occasions where pools have been opened in the spring after being closed all winter, where the CYA levels have gone down after the FC is depleted. It tends to be the exception, rather than the rule, and we aren't real sure as to why it happens, though there appears to be a bacteria involved in the process. So it happens, but one can't count on it.
Also, as a general rule, problems stemming from high CYA manifest themselves during the swim season, rather than over the winter, and the fix, if one is expecting a fix while actually able to USE the pool, is water replacement.
After mucho rain this week and prolonged backwashes, my CYA has dropped to below 20 (can still make out a faint dot at 20). It was at 30 last week. I want it back to 30, as I have had to double my daily bleach dose since the first big backwash (1/2 gallon to a gallon or more). It was my dropping FC that clued me in to check the CYA.
I have a leftover bucket of 3" trichlor tabs, and pool math says each adds 1.1 FC and .7 CYA, or eventually some 15 tabs to get CYA back up.
I want to make sure that its OK to stop the bleach for now, plunk a tab or two in, and keep at it until CYA is back up, then switch back to bleach.
Is that right??
Here's recent numbers:
FC 4.0
CC 0.0
pH 7.8 (the hardest color for me to gauge!)
TA 80
CH 250
CYA 20
TIA!
I have a leftover bucket of 3" trichlor tabs, and pool math says each adds 1.1 FC and .7 CYA, or eventually some 15 tabs to get CYA back up.
I want to make sure that its OK to stop the bleach for now, plunk a tab or two in, and keep at it until CYA is back up, then switch back to bleach.
Is that right??
Here's recent numbers:
FC 4.0
CC 0.0
pH 7.8 (the hardest color for me to gauge!)
TA 80
CH 250
CYA 20
TIA!
Someone braver than me! Admitting they use tablets!
But I also use liquid chlorine, stabilizer free.
I have a TF1000 test kit and test with it but I use tablets. I usually end up substantially draining my pool every season (so the winter doesn't hurt my tiles) so I generally don't run into problems. My problems with the pool are with other aspects like pump maintenance and such.
But I also use liquid chlorine, stabilizer free.
I have a TF1000 test kit and test with it but I use tablets. I usually end up substantially draining my pool every season (so the winter doesn't hurt my tiles) so I generally don't run into problems. My problems with the pool are with other aspects like pump maintenance and such.
Yes, I put myself out there!
I switched to bleach months ago after those tabs got me into all kinds of trouble and I had to do a partial drain before a long SLAM process. With the test kit and knowledge of CYA effects, I'm hoping I can use some tabs just for the short-term.
I switched to bleach months ago after those tabs got me into all kinds of trouble and I had to do a partial drain before a long SLAM process. With the test kit and knowledge of CYA effects, I'm hoping I can use some tabs just for the short-term.
Although it seems like the forum is anti tabs, its really more about understanding the connection and effects of the things you put in your pool. Considering your higher pH and TA, tablets would be a good way to add FC and the resulting CYA to your pool. You'll still have to measure FC (obviously) just to see how fast they are adding FC, but this is a good application for them, IMO.
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