Filter + Pump size and cloudy water
- Thread starter Sanchz
- Start date
I have yet this question, what can cause the water to cloud up when people get in for about 2 hours? No sediments on the bottom whatsoever. pH OK and chlorine was high (around 15 ppm I think).
Glad to see you are starting to brush pool this should help keep algae from getting a foot hold, and if done regularly pool should not cloud up after you brush. If your pool is clouding after you brush I suspect there are fine particles settling on walls that are not visible could be they get stirred up with swimmers and cloud it.
CH probably not issue with cloudy water but a low CH will cause your water to be more aggressive on both walls and anything metal.
The type of salt I use is in a pellet form used in water softeners, double check to make sure its just salt some will have other chemicals added. In US some larger grocery stores will carry it. You could also check with your pool store they will carry pool safe salts The people at my pool store see value in adding salt, I have talked to other pool people who have not heard of it and are a little skeptical. Again these are the things I've found that work with my pool.
I have seen trichlor with as low as 48% chlorine with clarifiers and softeners added they are a very pretty purple color. My pool hates them, other pools do just fine. I buy trichlor tabs with chlorine and a sun stabilizer and as few inert ingredients as possible. You have to check your label to see whats in yours.
CH probably not issue with cloudy water but a low CH will cause your water to be more aggressive on both walls and anything metal.
The type of salt I use is in a pellet form used in water softeners, double check to make sure its just salt some will have other chemicals added. In US some larger grocery stores will carry it. You could also check with your pool store they will carry pool safe salts The people at my pool store see value in adding salt, I have talked to other pool people who have not heard of it and are a little skeptical. Again these are the things I've found that work with my pool.
I have seen trichlor with as low as 48% chlorine with clarifiers and softeners added they are a very pretty purple color. My pool hates them, other pools do just fine. I buy trichlor tabs with chlorine and a sun stabilizer and as few inert ingredients as possible. You have to check your label to see whats in yours.
Welcome to TFP Sanchz!
Thought I would chime in here...
As other posters have mentioned, my thoughts are what you are describing seems to be most likely an organism (algae) growing, and it needs to be removed. If it is algea, you will have difficulty killing it since I would guess your CYA is high even with the water changes you experience, since you routinely use trichlor pucks and dichlor. Each 3 inch (8oz) trichlor tab raises CYA by 3.3 ppm. Every 0.5 lb of dichlor raises CYA by 3 ppm. Zea3 mentioned draining and starting over...I would agree that may be the best option...
however...you could attempt to see if there is something growing in your pool first by using doing a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test (OCLT). Since you only have what I assume is an OTO version of a Chlorine test, doing an OCLT is going to be tricky. You will not be able to test for the first criteria (CC of 0.5 ppm or less), but with some modification to your chlorine test, you may be able to attempt to measure the second criteria. The third criteria you are already "measuring" :-D
Let us know if you are interested...it is not for the faint of heart, and by no means a substitute for a proper test kit (which you already know).
Thought I would chime in here...
Sanchz, I am not aware of benefits to using salt (minus a swcg) to help maintain properly chlorinated/balanced pool, so this should be way down on the list of things to add to your pool now.audone said:
The best sanitizer is chlorine, I would shy away from any non-chlorine alternatives. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.htmlSanchz said:
As other posters have mentioned, my thoughts are what you are describing seems to be most likely an organism (algae) growing, and it needs to be removed. If it is algea, you will have difficulty killing it since I would guess your CYA is high even with the water changes you experience, since you routinely use trichlor pucks and dichlor. Each 3 inch (8oz) trichlor tab raises CYA by 3.3 ppm. Every 0.5 lb of dichlor raises CYA by 3 ppm. Zea3 mentioned draining and starting over...I would agree that may be the best option...
however...you could attempt to see if there is something growing in your pool first by using doing a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test (OCLT). Since you only have what I assume is an OTO version of a Chlorine test, doing an OCLT is going to be tricky. You will not be able to test for the first criteria (CC of 0.5 ppm or less), but with some modification to your chlorine test, you may be able to attempt to measure the second criteria. The third criteria you are already "measuring" :-D
Let us know if you are interested...it is not for the faint of heart, and by no means a substitute for a proper test kit (which you already know).
If I get the time, I might as well give it a try. I might need a new OTO reagent, though. I just want to let you know that I'm always emailing salespeople to see if I can get one proper test kit shipped here, but they're classified as HAZ-MAT whch makes it really hard.
I kind of suspect that there's no (more) growing organisms right now, since chlorine levels have been way too high for almost a week and it doesn't seem to get used up. I hope this is true.
Thanks for your help so far guys.
I kind of suspect that there's no (more) growing organisms right now, since chlorine levels have been way too high for almost a week and it doesn't seem to get used up. I hope this is true.
Thanks for your help so far guys.
You mentioned a TC level of 15 ppm in your first post. How did you measure that?Sanchz said:
Test strips with a top measurement of 10 ppm being more strongly coloured than that plus a diluted OTO test; I know it's not very accurate but at least I'msure it was over 10 ppm.
I know you have few choices, but I would not even consider the test strips as indicating much of anything (you may have read some of the test strip stories on here). The diluted OTO test is probably better...how did you do the test?Sanchz said:
This statement you made earlier is why I am focusing on your pool chemistry and not the filter:
First, it could be that a potion of the 3 ppm TC reading is actually CC. Regardless, if you CYA is high, which I think we both suspect, then being at 3 ppm will not prevent algae. If I take a wild guess at your CYA level being 100 ppm, then you need to maintain a minimum of 8 ppm FC at all times according to the pool calculator. To effectively kill off algae you would need at least 25 ppm FC for a sustained period of time. It is possible that your CYA level is much higher, and if so, the pool could be at the point where no reasonable amount of FC will clean it up.Sanchz said:
Since you are already familiar with doing a diluted OTO test, maybe run a OCLT? If you do, be warned that if your levels are too low you might be reading CC and if you levels are to high you will need to do quite a dilution and your ablitity to resolve small changes will be compromised.
linen said:
I need to get 3 weeks into the past in order to assess that "wild guess" of 100 ppm CYA levels.
The pool had turned green since we hadn't been home for two weeks; and an adjusted pH together with a first shock dosage of 6 gallons of liquid chlorine killed all the algae and left the pool milky but apparently algae free, with chlorine levels being low the next day.
I had added about 2 gallons more of liquid chlorine the next day, and flocculants helped clear it up for a couple of days. So, the chlorine had indeed worked, and I suppose that CYA is not really THAT high, but who knows...
I waited like 2 days or 3 (while trichlor pucks where in) till I added any more liquid/ dichlor chlorine and then kept adding once in 3 days (while at the same time dealing with more flocculants in order to achieve clarity); till I noticed that the walls were getting a bit green, and then I brushed and shocked once more; and kept adding chlorine daily and shocked even one more time (4 days ago when it got cloudly after some "moderate" use).
I've not used flocculants since the last time it got cloudy and just kept adding chlorine and running the filter in "normal" schedule, and I can see an improvement today.
However, the diluted OTO test I did yesterday (fill half the container with pool water, half with tap water which shows no chlorine when tested on its own; and add the drops) was still beyond the 3ppm colouring, so I must confess I "guessed" a 15ppm chlorine level. I can say that the water smells like chlorine, but it can't be CC; it's faint but it's there, fresh chlorine smell, which makes me think the levels are too high.
If a pool has no CC but sufficiently high FC levels, will there be some mild chlorine smell in it???
I'll perform a proper OCLT on Friday if I get a new OTO bottle and post the results.
Wow...if that is 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite in your chlorine the pool calculator says that you had 75 ppm FC in your 10000 gallon pool! That is much too high! Tough on equipment, surfaces, etc. THere is a chance that the chlorine you are using is not "good". As to the testing the next day, even with a significant algae outbreak, that much chlorine would not disappear so quickly...I would definitely suspect your test solution and possibly your chlorine source.Sanchz said:
Had you been using trichlor or dichlor products prior to this point? If you have not,you should have no CYA, if you have, then it could be high. If you haven't maybe we could figure out how much you have added since.Sanchz said:
I think you are familiar with it, but I want to make sure you have read the Shocking process. Remember it is a process that can take some time...usually more than a day or two. It is important to keep your pools FC level at/above the recommended shocking level until you pass the OCLT, or in your case, a modified version of the OCLT with the tools you have available. In the end it is better to sustain at/just above the recommended FC level until all algae is removed rather than using a bolus method, where the highs might damage something, and the lows drop well below your minimum shocking level.Sanchz said:
Sounds like you are seeing an improvement, but like I mentioned above, continue maintain the recommended shocking level until you pass the modified OCLT.Sanchz said:
I am not sure about what a pool would smell like at 75 ppm (see my comments above), but my experience when FC is at typical shocking levels, I do not smell what I think of as a chlorine smell. My nose is not the best however...Sanchz said:
Let us know how it goes and if we can be of any help. If in the end you can't get a reasonable guess as to how much CYA you have in the pool, you may still want to drain/partial drain and refill (especially if you can not find a source for a test kit) unless you expect to get a lot of water changes (heavy rain, splash out) and plan on stopping use of the trichlor/dichlor (which I would do regardless).Sanchz said:
If you smell it, you have CC , you still have algae, or something alive, in your pool. Here is a thread on the matter chlorine-smell-and-other-s-t766.html . You are on the right track with Linen. It might be beneficial to get a new set of numbers and where the reading came from ( for example, a test strip, TF-100, pool store).
Previously you said you had a TF-100, do you have the R-0013 to test the Cyanuric acid (CYA)?
Have you made any progress obtaining reagents for your TF-100?
Previously you said you had a TF-100, do you have the R-0013 to test the Cyanuric acid (CYA)?
Have you made any progress obtaining reagents for your TF-100?
Sanchz, you have asand filter which is also the slowest for filtering and you also need to backflush it well and possibly often as you're clearing the pool. Have you tried adding some DE powder to it? It will help speed the clearing process.
Since you are having trouble ordering reagents, is there a pool store nearby that uses drop tests for their testing and that can perform a FAS-DPD chlorine test for you?
Since you are having trouble ordering reagents, is there a pool store nearby that uses drop tests for their testing and that can perform a FAS-DPD chlorine test for you?
linen said:
The label said 90 (grams) Cl per liter of product, so I'm not sure about it's concentration. But I've seen similar pools been given the same treatment with almost no algae in them.
linen said:
Unfortunately, yes; but for all the winter months (june-september) and up until a month ago I had been using liquid chlorine plus trichlor tabs (and water got replaced when vacuuming); a month ago I actually suspected that the CYA levels were too low since chlorine level fell quickly after a sunny day.
Plus, I had been using these:
http://www.aquachem.com/mp/v/index.jsp? ... mt=default
Which, since I got them, read CYA levels at 50 ppm or less. That's why I'm quite reluctant on draining half the pool (plus, I invested a LOT to get rid of the algae).
linen said:
I agree, but I don't really know my actual FC target due to unknown or unreliable CYA readings.
linen said:
So, do you suggest going liquid only? The only real problem is that it's a pain to handle, but I know the alternatve is just potential problems.
Buford said:
There isn't any noticeable smell if you come close to the pool; I smell it in my arm after I have submerged it in pool water or in my clothes or while I'm in the pool; and I remember reading that it might be so because chloramines are formed when chlorine meets the oils in the skin, etc.
I don't have the TF-100, just the test strip mentioned above, which at least have a CYA reading; and which have never shown any delta between FC and TC.
Plus, I find it hard to believe that after the repeated shocks there is still any CC in the water.
carlscan26 said:
For about one week of filtering, WITH DE added, the pressure isn't yet at the point where a backwash is needed.
There is only one webpage of a pool cleaning company which states it gives "detailed" measurements of the chemical quality of the pool water, but I have trouble in getting them by phone or email. All other pool stores give me a blank stare when I ask for any kind of in-store testing.
Sanchz:
Sorry, I was mistaken. I must have been thinking of someone else.
Maybe someone else will chime in and give you a personal reference to a supplier they trust. In the meantime, I take it you have not heard from Horner Express. These guys claim they ship internationally http://www.novatech-usa.com/Information ... nal-Orders and I think you would want a Spanish version http://www.novatech-usa.com/K-2006S . I know nothing about this company, other than it has a web site. If Palintest is available, that might be an option.
I understand all I need to about inbound customs to the US and how one can loose a shipment and knowing how government agencies work, imagine it is the same there.
Sorry, I was mistaken. I must have been thinking of someone else.
Maybe someone else will chime in and give you a personal reference to a supplier they trust. In the meantime, I take it you have not heard from Horner Express. These guys claim they ship internationally http://www.novatech-usa.com/Information ... nal-Orders and I think you would want a Spanish version http://www.novatech-usa.com/K-2006S . I know nothing about this company, other than it has a web site. If Palintest is available, that might be an option.
I understand all I need to about inbound customs to the US and how one can loose a shipment and knowing how government agencies work, imagine it is the same there.
Horner Express does not ship to individuals, and that link to novatech is quite promising; I'll talk to them. My main concern is customs, since they've turned very restrictive lately, and I don't want a $150 packaged to be kept on hold or confiscated and kept in hot warehouses (it's summer here). I just want to be sure I get it.
I understand, and had stuff returned to the country of origin, no fun, just because the vendor did not fill out the paperwork correctly. Not for the faint of heart.
Maybe someone has some information about novatech, or another firm and what the procedures are to satisfy your customs regulations.
Maybe someone has some information about novatech, or another firm and what the procedures are to satisfy your customs regulations.
Sanchz:
This post will cover shipment out of the US, test-kits-available-in-australia-t27883-20.html
Shipment costs and customs in Argentina are another story.
This post will cover shipment out of the US, test-kits-available-in-australia-t27883-20.html
Shipment costs and customs in Argentina are another story.