Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Pool leaking around jet & Light - PB repairing with Putty!!!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
    Posts
    79

    Pool leaking around jet & Light - PB repairing with Putty!!!

    I just had my pool finished, and my spa was leaking from day 1. They were troubleshooting it for a while, and we finally found two leaks, one around a Jet, one around the light housing.

    The super came out and fixed it with putty and flat-out told me this is not permanent. Then the plaster sub showed up with only some sandpaper and told me it is all done.

    Back on the phone with the PB, he is telling me it is done too. BS!!

    So now I have the owner of the company coming out next week to see for himself, and most likely he'll try to also convince me it is DONE and FINE and WON'T LEAK, etc...

    BUT SERIOUSLY... Is he kidding himself?!?

    Will Putty hold? I know it is a cold bond, and even if they repair it with plaster, it will still be a cold bond, but wouldn't plaster be better than putty?!?!?

    I feel like I am getting ripped off, and for a $50K pool, I'm quite miffed about this. When I bought my $50K luxury car, it didn't show up with Bondo on the door, so why is my pool???

    What do you guys think? I know there's some PBs who hang out here so I'd like to get their insight into this as well.. I don't mind the look for the putty, and it's hidden for the most part, but I feel like I'm being ripped off and want either some money back for the cost of the plaster, or else it to be repaired properly.

    I already told the owner if he doesn't get this matter resolved, I'm standing out from and picketing and will badmouth the **** out of them as best I can. They're a small time shop, and that is why I went with them in the first place (the big guys made me feel like I was at a car dealership) and I really liked them up until this point... The super is on my side and telling me to keep complaining, so why is this so difficult to get resolved?!?!?!?

    Thanks in advance,
    Kevin

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Guest
    the pool epoxy is a temporary repair at best. They just don't want to do the job right.

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
    Posts
    79
    Thanks WB, That is exactly my feeling..

    Does anyone have details or proof on how Putty will wear down and erode away (from the water) so I can prove technically that this is not finished??

    For example, I heard putty does not harden, thus will easily erode from water.. Any more tid bits like this are ammo for me.. So thanks again in advance!!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Coastalish 'down easter'
    Posts
    4,160
    Not to disagree with Evan, but at this point the epoxy is probably the best bet What probably happened is that the crete was not shot fully around the suspect fitting/ light and the plaster crew didn't fully seal the gap. I saw this a number of times while doing shotcrete pools. If you 'force' the issue, what they'll probably do is drain the pool below the problem areas and chip out the 'plaster' and patch the areas with hydrolic cement (like waterplug) and then patch the finish coat. At this point, you can either accept what they do to fix it (epoxy) and have them extend the warantee for those areas or force them to 'redo' those areas.

    I hope I'm giving you a realistic idea of the options, run this by your PB and see what he says, then inform us and we'll give you our opinions of which course to take
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    104

    other uses for waterplug

    Sorry to hear about your problems IPvFletch. I am afraid I can't offer any better advice.

    Waste and Evan - Shouldn't all gaps around lights, skimmer throats, and jets be filled with hydraulic cement before plaster? And shouldn't IpvFletch insist this is part of the repair?

    Otherwise, the PB is depending on the plaster guys to do it with plaster (I don't know if there is a difference between plaster and hydraulic cement). If the plaster guys just skim over the gap instead of fill the gaps a leak is probably inevitable. The only "sort of" good news for IPvFletch is the leaks happened immediately before the PB can tell him that his "bad water chemistry" caused the problem.
    Light grey plaster, stone coping, 38K gallon Roman shaped pool with a shallow end beach, table and bar stools, deep end bench and waterfall (Intelliflo 4X160). Taylor K-2006, Pentair 320 chlorinator, Intelliflow VF, Quad DE 100. 4 ColorLogics, 3 skimmers, 14 wall returns, 13 floor returns, TurboTwister slide, autofill and miles of pvc.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Guest
    biggest problem with epoxy is that it does degrade rather quickly. The repair might only last a year or two. Ted (Waste), do you agree?

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
    Posts
    79
    I never saw them put hydraulic cement around these areas, or other areas for that matter.

    It was gunited, not shot-creted, and I could clearly see gaps between the gunite and the equipment, not just in the Spa but all over. And then when the plastered, they filled in those gaps around the niche and jet couplers. Is this not normal???

    The PB did tell me they could not just patch the little area, they'd have to chip away some and then patch it as a larger area, but honestly, I don't really care. They need to FIX IT PERMANENTLY.

    I suppose if they won't budge, asking for a longer warranty would not be out of the question, and in fact, I may do that regardless, even if they DO fix it.. At least then I'd have peace of mind..

    This is so frustrating..

    We'll probably make the final decision on Monday, so I won't have a chance to take down what they say and post it here to get your feedback. At this point, I'm trying to prepare for any scenario as best I can so I am best equipped to make the right call when they show up on Monday.

    Keep it coming!!

    Thanks,
    Kevin

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    104

    fill the voids

    Filling around the lights and jets and drains with plaster is normal. What is not normal IMHO is when voids are not completely filled with hydraulic cement or plaster after the gunite. I think there are always voids in a gunite shoot. Small hard to reach areas where the wand can't fit probably end up as voids. I suspect they are common under skimmer throats. Then eventually the tile grout cracks and water leaks into the void under the skimmer throat. I am guessing this could be avoided by filling these voids with plaster or hydraulic cement so when the inevitable happens, the water won't have anywhere to leak. In your case, I am guessing that instead of packing the void with plaster they skimmed a coat over the void and just tried to seal it. Apparently, the seal broke quickly and water is leaking into the voids they never filled.

    However, I am only trying to apply common sense; I have no experience as a builder (except my own pool which is awaiting the tile/coping stage). You are way ahead of me.

    Hopefully, an experienced builder will chime in.
    Light grey plaster, stone coping, 38K gallon Roman shaped pool with a shallow end beach, table and bar stools, deep end bench and waterfall (Intelliflo 4X160). Taylor K-2006, Pentair 320 chlorinator, Intelliflow VF, Quad DE 100. 4 ColorLogics, 3 skimmers, 14 wall returns, 13 floor returns, TurboTwister slide, autofill and miles of pvc.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,417
    If you maintain some degree of financial leverage (withold some money) that will always buy you the time you need to sort things out and arrive at a solution you are comfortable with.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
    Posts
    79
    Heh, that is EXACTLY what I tried to do, Duraleigh, but they wouldn't plaster until I gave them the final check... So I had to just to get the plaster done initially... So they got their money... :\

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Coastalish 'down easter'
    Posts
    4,160
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    biggest problem with epoxy is that it does degrade rather quickly. The repair might only last a year or two. Ted (Waste), do you agree?
    Well of course I do, which is why I suggested extending the warrantee for those ares, make them come out scrape out the old putty and reapply it for free for say, 10 years (after 10 years you might be ready for a replaster anyway and the areas can be properly fixed) The durability of the epoxy depends on a couple of things 1) The quality of the epoxy - -I've found that the gray stuff from plumbing distributors is more durable than the white (but can't be used on white plaster for aesthetic reasons) 2) the skill of the person applying it (case in point: last spring one of our pools decks had shifted and cracked the fiberglass stairs below the waterline - the owner couldn't afford to rip up the deck and replace the stairs $$$ so we patched them with epoxy - come mid- August we got called back out because the patch was flaking and failing on one side - the side that had failed is the one my partner had packed in ~ 1/2 tube of putty while my side, which I had packed, smoothed, layered and feathered was holding up fine - I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but he used 2X as much putty in ~1/2 the time and his failed - BTW - I AM NOT!! taking any bets as to whether mine will still be holding come this spring when we open the pool )

    I also want to point out that ANY patch is going to show

    As for the difficulty of getting the shot material to seal these areas, the gunner has to make sure to fill these areas slowly and from all angles (bending the knees is a big help ) and to build them out slowly. However, should a gap be missed with the hose, you go back and patch it with the waterplug before the plaster is applied (If anyone has an interest in my verbally painting a vivid picture of the joy of shooting a pool on a nice 100 deg summer day, just ask and I'll go entertain you in the coffee bar)

    IPv, I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction!! Your new pool shouldn't leak and the fix is on them - you have every right to be upset/ disappointed by the job they did, I'm sure the PB isn't well pleased either. As you don't have the $ card to play, try the reason card, calmly explain your concerns, toss him the 'atta-boy' ("other than this I'm very happy with the pool"), puff him up a little ("I'm sure this usually doesn't happen, I chose you because I know you do quality work"), and dangle the carrot ("as long as this isn't something I'll be continually worrying about or having a problem with, I'll gladly recommend you to my friends that are thinking about buying a pool, and I'll tell them how you bent over backwards to fix this little/ understandable mistake to my full satisfaction").

    (I imagine I'm gonna hear about this one )
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Suwanee, GA
    Posts
    527
    I too have putty in my pool with a few differences. My patch in in plain view in the deep end but mine was not patched because of a leak. When the pebblesheen was installed a small piece of styrofoam got stuck in the floor beneath a small layer of plaster above it so it was not visible. When the pool was filled, the styrofoam broke through. After the hole was cleaned out it was about the size of a nickel and a half an inch deep, there was still plaster beneath. They came out and patched it with gray putty squishing aggregate in the putty. It doesn't look terrible, but you can tell it's there...

    I wanted the pool drained and fixed correctly, but most everyone said that the proper pebble patch would never match exactly and would most likely be larger since they would have to chip out the surrounding area. I had the owner come out, a few reps from the plaster company and even a PebbleTec warranty guy came out from Arizona to look at it. They all said that the putty should hold for a long time (year right) but I got a written statement from my PB and the plaster company that the repair would be covered for the duration of the Pebble warranty. Pebble guy said that as well, but unfortunately I have nothing in writing from him.

    I would have bit the bullet and had them fix it but due to the drought we are having in GA, soon after our pool was filled and all the parties came out and looked at the pool, filling pools was no longer allowed. I'll keep a close eye on the patch and just hope for the best.
    Gary
    21k gal SW, IG Gunite PebbleSheen, 1HP Jandy, Jandy 340 filter, Polaris 280, 17' fiberglass slide w/ 2HP pump.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
    Posts
    79
    Waste, that is exactly what I have done and will do on Monday..

    Thanks for all the responses.. Keep 'em coming, it's about 30 hours until these guys show up, and I want to be prepared with everything possible to get THEM to change THEIR minds about the plaster..

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX
    Posts
    79
    Well, despite all my efforts and info, I was UNABLE to convince them otherwise today.

    Essentially "they use 2-part hardening epoxy many times" and "it will last longer than my plaster will" and "to fix it with plaster, it will require a huge patch, and could damage the strength of the rest of my plaster surround the areas"..

    They're at least going to give me, in writing, a 2-year warranty on the epoxy and also said if it ever falls out or erodes before my plaster does, call them and they will fix it free of charge..

    I can barely see it and it's likely nobody else will, so I'm OK with this, but I do feel a little ripped off. I told them that and I will NOT be permitting them to take pictures of my pool to use as a sales tool (they already asked me yet I have not officially replied saying NO) and will NOT talk highly of them in this manner to future potential pool buyers - I like the rest of their work, but they just ****** me off and I don't feel right hiding this from other potential customers...

    FYI - This was TEXAS POOLS AND PATIOS in Lakeway, TX.. DON'T BUY A POOL FROM THEM!! HAHA, take that!!

    *rolleyes*

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •