New Pool Build - Nashville suburbs

[aeromorris05]

Pool Construction:

Cardinal Oasis 36x18 Steel Wall Pool - 3 radiused steps - Not as pictured below

Tara Brand Custom Vinyl Liner (20mil) – we’ve narrowed it down to Capri or Montego Bay
½ inch stone backfill
Concrete Deck (6’ perimeter)
Equipment pad (6x6)
Additional concrete decking at $4/ft
Cantilevered coping - (standard)
3.5 to 7ft deep
3 Deck Jets

Pool Equipment:
Hayward Hi Rate San Filter w/ Multiport – Upgraded to cartridge $400
Hayward Super Pump 2-speed – I think it’s 1.5HP
1-Hayward Color Logic Light
Polaris 280 automatic cleaner
1-Ladder, 1-Handrail
2-Skimmers
Dual VGB approved main drain
4-returns minimum
Electrical Box & Breakers –
Goldline/Hayward Equipment Control System & SWCG– Aqua Plus

Misc:
Electricity to equipment pad $250 (My breaker box is full so a 2nd will be installed)
Wiring for 12v walkway lighting & 110v 20A service to future pergola/pavilion $100 total
Wiring for additional lighting & fixtures on rear of the house - $200 Estimate

Background:

This project initially began January 2011. My wife and I had done a little bit of research but in hindsight we weren’t nearly educated enough regarding all the different products and their positives and negatives. Additionally we were under the impression that the entire project could be completed with a financial commitment in the low 30’s. Long story short we decided to save for 1 more year. (We’re Dave Ramsey, so no unnecessary debt.)

We interviewed 3 builders the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Interviews started at 9 and ended around noon. The first contractor hailed from Nashville which is about a 40min drive from our door to downtown. We had a chance to see the work of this company as they built the pool next to my MIL’s home. One small caveat is that my in-laws live in Brentwood. I don’t know how to describe the area other than to say that it’s the “Malibu” of Nashville. All the country music stars and pro athletes live there. Every home built since ’95 is 3500sq-ft or more. HOA Nazis are never in short supply. It’s really a beautiful place but stuff there is ridiculously expensive. The plan drawn up was gorgeous but well into the mid $40’s. This left no margin for fencing and other yard improvements so he was reluctantly eliminated.

Builder number 2 was up next. We had met with him briefly last year when we thought we wanted a composite pool. We decided to have him back this time to give a presentation of their vinyl offerings. We told him up front of our desire for a 36’ to 38’ steel wall pool. Let me tell you this guy might be the worst salesman ever. First he shows us the 36’ pool we enquired about but almost immediately changes gears toward selling us a 32’ x 16’ composite pool at a remarkably low $4k markup from the larger vinyl pool we desired. The part that makes this hilarious is that he kept raving about the 6’ by 3’ sunning ledge. Since we’re on the internet and you have no way of knowing this let me just inform y’all that my wife is a very attractive white girl of German/Russian/Polish heritage. I, on the other hand am your average sexy black guy from TN. I and my son (8) and daughter (6) have absolutely no use for a sunning ledge. Heck my kids could do commercials for Coppertone in the middle of February. We made the mistake of telling him we would get back with him the Friday after Thanksgiving. We told him that he was one of 3 potential contractors but I think he convinced himself that we were buying with him. FYI – when we called Friday to tell him he lost the bid we were surprised to learn that they were running a promotion for a Caribbean cruise for each composite pool sold. We didn’t bite. Unscrupulous!

The third builder was local. He built our neighbor’s pool and had always given them good support. We liked that. The design wasn’t as flashy as the 1st PB but he had the ability to add features upon request. Our neighbors had an issue a few years back where the liner was pulling out of the track. The PB showed up and resolved the issue no questions asked. I’m not the kind of consumer to nag the PB but if I do have a problem I can appreciate a PB who demonstrates that level of service. Anyway, this guy’s bid for the base pool came in at $32k and he didn’t try to gouge us for extras like the LED light or the deck jets. His concrete rates were essentially at cost. Items like cantilevered coping and SWG were standard. He even talked about trying out the new Hayward wireless pool control system at his home in the coming spring and if he liked it he’d throw it in ours for free. Obviously we went with this guy. He just provided a level of confidence, competence, and price we felt comfortable with. We signed the contract November 30th and handed him a check for 60% the following day.
December 12th – PB drops off 4 pallets of steel wall liners
December 17th – PB shows up to finalize pool layout/location. The plan is to dig the hole and set the panels before Christmas. Unfortunately mother nature did not agree. Rain, rain, and more rain! Ugh! PB is out of time till after New Years.

I plan to update this fairly regularly. Next up - photos of the backyard.

 

[DBfan187]

The part that makes this hilarious is that he kept raving about the 6’ by 3’ sunning ledge. Since we’re on the internet and you have no way of knowing this let me just inform y’all that my wife is a very attractive white girl of German/Russian/Polish heritage. I, on the other hand am your average sexy black guy from TN. I and my son (8) and daughter (6) have absolutely no use for a sunning ledge. Heck my kids could do commercials for Coppertone in the middle of February.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good luck with your build!

 

[duraleigh]

Welcome to the forum! :-D Everyone here loves pool builds.....remodel or new.

It sounds like you are off to a flying start with a good builder.

 

[ROB N]

Just a word of advice... On your payment sechedule, ensure that you have a large last payment. This will ensure that the pb is motivated to have a complete final product, built to your satisfaction. You DO NOT want to pay all the money up front, he just might need incentive towards the end of the build. This will help motivate him to keep you happy with the progress and that the final result from the pool build is what was agreed upon and built to the quality standards you expect and he agreed to!! Good luck with the build and please post as many pics as you can!!! We Love pics!!!


Also, I do not see a booster pump listed in your specs, you will need one for the polaris 280...

 

[aeromorris05]

Rob,
Thanks for the heads up regarding payment schedule leverage. We did agree to pay the 60% as did our neigbor who used this builder 5yrs ago. The next payment of 20% isn't due until they get ready to pour the concrete decking. And the final payment is upon satisfactory completion. I'll be sure to hang on to that last payment until I'm fully satisfied.

Update on fence contractor:
Interviewed 2 local fence companies the week following Christmas. After talking to a couple of neighbors we discovered that our preliminary allocation of about $2500 was quite a bit off. With both of the companies providing quotes within $100 of each other we picked the one that was closest and that had done other work in the neighborhood. Final price was $5400. Ouch! Our original estimates weren't too far off if we decided to go for wood fencing but the theme of this entire project is low maintainence. I don't want to have to stain a wood fence every other year. I will invariably neglect to do it.

With regard to the pool build:
A pre-Christmas spell of rain prevented initial excavation attempts however yesterday saw quite a bit of activity. Our PB and 2-workers showed up to begin the dig. I was expecting total destruction of the back yard and that's exactly what we got! By the end of the day the pool outline was clearly discernable and the entire pool floor had a fairly uniform 2.5-3ft depth. The plan was to use some of the spoil dirt to raise the level of the back yard by 6" or so to aid with drainage. I'm a little awestruck at the volume of dirt removed.

A little background info about our lot. We have a drainage "ditch" at the rear of the property for runoff water from the subdivision. Our house sits at the confluence of two of these ditches. These two feeders run parallel to the rear property line then T-off and head away from the house. Unfortunately when we experience very heavy rains there is quite a bit of turbulence and the swirling motion tends to erode dirt from the berm that is the back edge of the lot. The centerline of the ditch is approximately 5-6 feet below the original grade of the lawn at the house and the roll-off occurs over approx 20ft. The plan was to use excavation dirt to reconstruct the berm and to make the lot flatter closer to the ditch. This would give us more useable flat area and prevent the fence from pressing up close to the pool on the back edge of the property. When I pulled the permit at the city office they were very adamant that we not "change the structure of the ditch" however they pointed out that I'm within my rights as a homeowner to maintain the berm and that includes repairing erosion damage and whatnot.

The problem I foresee now that repair of the berm has begun is that I'm not sure how stable this steeper earthen slope will be. They haven't attempted any soil compation yet but I'm starting to think it might require reinforcement. Something like geogrid, terramesh, or heaven forbid a 3ft retaining wall. I'm not even sure I want to know how much something like that would cost. I suppose I could go the cheaper natural route first and try and stabilize the slope with switch or maiden grass. Gonna have to talk to the PB about that. The last thing I want is for the fence to be undermined by erosion. One positive about this project is that we'll finally solve the minor rainwater runoff issue we've had since move-in. I was expecting the pool-hole to be a muddy mess but it was actually quite dry. The PB had already drawn up a plan to have all the rear downspouts tied together and the water dumped from the property via underground 3" sewer drains. The volume of water affecting the berm should also be substantially reduced by the inclusion of channel drains in the concrete decking.

I've got pix of the property pre-construction and following Day 1. I expect to post them sometime tonight. Sorry for the holiday disappearance. Things got kinda crazy...

 

[aeromorris05]

Here's a picture of the property before demolition of the deck. Note: The small maple tree in the center of the frame is about 2ft into our property.

Here's a picture of of the property looking from right to left across the yard. This picture gives a good illustration of the challenges we face at the drainage end of the yard.

Here's a picture following the deck demolition. Our local refuse convenience center only allowed 1 full truck load of trash per day. A quick Google search revealed that our county had at least 12 such centers on our side of the county. We visited 6 different centers and dropped a load in each! Bye bye deck! If you look to the left you'll notice that our PB delivered the pool kit.

Jan 3rd - Ground breaking!

We've got a uniform 2.5ft pool bottom!

Photo from backdoor looking right

Photo from backdoor looking left

Pool walls going in today!!! It was too dark for me to get photos but they also began digging the deep end. After standing in it I think they've got about a foot to go but it looks good so far. The good news is that they didn't hit rock. Limestone is everywhere in this part of TN so I'll take this small victory.

 

[tatertot09]

It looks great!! we went through the process back in June!!! its a blast!! What are you doing for decking?? As well what type of light did you go with?? Can't wait to see your photos!!

 

[257WbyMag]

Looking good so far! Welcome to TFP!

 

[aeromorris05]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm so fortunate that I found this site.

Tater, you asked about the light. I believe it's the Hayward Colorlogic 4.0. PB was pretty confident that we'd be fine with just a single light pointed down the centerline of the pool. And his upgrade price was fair. I don't know anything about underwater light fixtures but I'd assume if we wanted to change to something more conventional 5-6yrs down the road it would still accept a normal incandescent light?

As for decking, we're going with the standard brushed concrete and cantilevered coping. We went back and forth over whether to upgrade the deck but ultimately simplicity won out. We've got stonework on the front face of the house so we were thinking of tying that together by adding stonework to the new backdoor steps that still need to be built. There's also a fire pit and pavillion in the queue but that'll probably be next year's projects. Both of those will receive the same stone treatment. I Still need to get an estimate for running gas to the location of the fire pit. We're partial to the smell and ambiance of wood but the convenience of gas is attractive. If nothing else it would make starting the fire a snap.

I hope to post more pictures tomorrow. Excellent progress today!!! Our shallow end was originally slated to be 3.5' which I guess is standard. We requested that they deepen that to 4.5'. We're tallish folk and 3.5' just seemed kinda low for wading. So today they made the modification. They also finished assembling the forms and anchors and poured the concrete footer. The concrete guys were excellent by the way. They had the foresight to spread a foot of dirt over the last 4-5ft of our driveway so that when the cement truck drove off the edge the weight wouldn't be concentrated on the end of it, resulting in a crack. I knew immediately that this wasn't their first rodeo.

The pool bottom is still just Tennessee clay and looks to need a bit more sculpting but we're to the point where we can begin to visualize the final product. I stood in the deep end last night before they closed the form. In the future I shall refer to her as Large Marge!

On a final note, I thought it was kinda weird that the concrete was poured before any amount of plumbing was done. I only noticed 1 pipe cemented in place. Not sure if it's for the main drain as it doesn't reemerge anywhere within the pool. I'll try and post pictures tomorrow.

 

[tatertot09]

You did make a great decision on the light, the LED is a GREAT choice. We did the LED's unforutnatly with the way the pool is placed we didnt want a light shining towards the house or the seating area so we had to do 2 as one wouldnt cut it facing away from the house. They didn't start our pluming until they poured the footer either, which I personally thought they would encase the pluming in the concrete, but because they like to test it after for leaks they do it after the concrete (what our PB told us anyway). As well (being 6 ft 3 my self) I wish we had done the extra foot in the shallow but the nieces and nephews outweighed my hight. LOL

The decking is always a hard decision but the brushed concrete looks great.. we did the standard brushed concrete and the aluminum trim mainly because we had an existing paver patio and I had to decided between the cantilevered coping or having the pavers wrap the concrete to tie into the pool so obviously the pavers won. But still am a little jealous of your coping!!

The fire pit is an excellent idea, and I truly do say its a must have! Although we couldnt run a gas line to our fire pit we found one from Restoration Hardware that looks like a custom built fire place but has a propane tank hidden under a table. I do say go for the gas line!!! As for the Pavillion I agree, we simply ran out of money on the build do to my eye for shiny objects and have been talking about putting in a pergola, so I cant wait to see what you do.

Side note, look into umbrella sleeves, they are cheap but give an amazing resort feel... if your pool builder doesnt have any let me know if you want them and I can find the website I bought ours from...

BTW here was a link to our build... http://www.troublefreepool.com/16-x-32-inground-vinyl-finally-completed-t31990.html?hilit=16x32

 

[pool_snob]

I have a very similar 38' x 18' IG vinyl with a single colorlogic 4.0 and can tell you I sure wish I had done 2.

Also, any particular reason for the 7' deepend? That's like a 'tweener depth - too deep for sport pool type activities and too shallow for diving...and even though it may be "NO diving allowed" pool, the reality is people/kids WILL dive and 7' is not safe for diving IMO.

 

[aeromorris05]

I have a very similar 38' x 18' IG vinyl with a single colorlogic 4.0 and can tell you I sure wish I had done 2.

Also, any particular reason for the 7' deepend? That's like a 'tweener depth - too deep for sport pool type activities and too shallow for diving...and even though it may be "NO diving allowed" pool, the reality is people/kids WILL dive and 7' is not safe for diving IMO.

Snob,
You indicate that you went with a single LED with a similar sized pool. Was your light oriented like mine. Ours will be shining from the deep end to the shallow end along the long axis of the pool. I don't need to be able to read newsprint at the bottom but I'd definitely like for the pool to be bright enough to tell there's a bottom. If we added a second light and got the smaller Hayward "spa" light, would that do the trick in your opinion? I think I might ask my PB to point us toward one of his references so that we can see for ourselves if 1 light is sufficient. Thanks for the heads up as this was something I had been concerned about.

With regard to the 7' depth. I'm 6'2 and one of my pet peeves was hanging out in the

too shallow end because others couldn't touch comfortably @ 5'. The shallow end squat isn't fun. My kids are 9 & 7 and have been riding the 98th percentile in height since birth. Instead of sizing the pool for them right now we decided to bias the depths toward adult and teen fun. I didn't want to go 8 or deeper because I never really enjoyed headfirst diving and would prefer to keep this a non-diving pool. This pool should be perfect for cannon balls. The other plus is that it's deep enough for me to get a workout treading water. The standard 6' is a bit shallow. I don't know if this is typical but it seems like the quoted pool depth is always deeper than actual water depth. I'm not sure if that's because water height as measured at the skimmers varies?

 

[aeromorris05]

Pictures from Thursday:

Concrete has arrived

In this photo you can see that there's still work to be done on the RHS of the berm.

Found the main drain. It was originally obscured by a mini-landslide within the pool.

Stairs were installed as well

Wide shot

Trenches for plumbing and backfilling should be done on Tuesday, weather permitting.

 

[aeromorris05]

Tatertot - I'm leaning more and more toward installing a permanent gas line. Funds won't permit construction of the firepit at this time but surely it can't cost that much to install a capped gas line. It's an unobstructed straight 35-40' shot from our meter. We plan to pour extra concrete to create a sitting area for the pit but the actual pit, lava rock, and gas ring will need to wait. Some of those gas rings are surprisingly expensive.

As for the umbrella sleeves, we may install 1 or 2 of those. I saw where someone on this site also used them for a makeshift basketball goal.

Thanks for posting a link to your build. Your pavers give the project a very upscale look and the transition to the concrete was well implemented. I really like your liner too. We've been going back and forth between 3 very similar liner choices. I know we'll be replacing the liner in 8yrs or so but it feels like such a permanent decision.

 

[aeromorris05]

I hadn't mentioned this yet but I plan to talk with my PB on Monday with regard to including provisions for future installation of a natural gas heater. His installed price is about $2200 plus the cost of running the gas line. We hadn't given much consideration to it b/c in southern Middle TN we assumed we'd have a swimming season from mid-May to mid-September. If we were to get the 400K BTU model how much of an extension in swimming season could we expect? April 1st to Halloween? Comments from pool owners living in similar climates would be greatly appreciated.

Nashville average high/low temps for reference:
Jan 46/28
Feb 52/30
Mar 61/39
Apr 70/46
May 77/57
June 85/65
July 89/68
Aug 88/68
Sept 82/61
Oct 71/49
Nov 59/40
Dec 49/32

 

[ROB N]

With a solar cover you and heater yopu can to expect to reasonably add one month on the back and front of the swim season... so your estimates are correct. But, you might not once you see the gas bill... but the heater will most definitely allow you to heat your pool faster and begin the season earlier!

 

[dssxxxx]

When we used to open our pool May 1st and close around the 2nd week in October, we found very minimal increases in gas charges and we live in NJ. We would heat our water from a usual temp of 58 to 84 in about 18-20 hours. We would keep the temps at around 84 for the duration of the pool season. Now since we only use the pool in FL and the golden retrievers use the pool in NJ, we open the week before Memorial Day and close 1-2 weeks after Labor day. Also the goldens told us to keep the pool cool, so we do not use the heater anymore unless we have guests over and will then throw it on the day before and get is up to 84 for them.

 

[aeromorris05]

dssxxx,
By minimal increase are we talking $100-200/mo added to your gas bill for maintaining a continuous 85° temp in NJ? I've been searching old threads for approximate cost impacts and I've seen numbers as high as $5-600/mo. If the cost increase is only $400-500/yr and I can open my pool in early April and close around Halloween I might have to consider adding a heater now rather than later.

 

[mx702]

I do not have any figures or experience to offer you in regards to the operation of a pool heater, but I was on the fence during my build on whether or not to add a heater. I did leave ample room on our equipment pad to accomodate one in the future, but opted to forgo the heater at the time. I figured I'd live with the pool for a few seasons and get a feel for our usage patterns before making the investment. Judging from this past fall, I don't believe I'll ever install one. For us, I don't feel it would extend the swim season much if at all. Even if the water is 85 deg there just is not a lot of desire to go in when the ambient temp outside is 65-70 deg - which is typical in NE on the bookends of the season.

 

[dssxxxx]

dssxxx,
By minimal increase are we talking $100-200/mo added to your gas bill for maintaining a continuous 85° temp in NJ? I've been searching old threads for approximate cost impacts and I've seen numbers as high as $5-600/mo. If the cost increase is only $400-500/yr and I can open my pool in early April and close around Halloween I might have to consider adding a heater now rather than later.

When we were using the heater on a continuous basis, we figured the average cost to be between $50-75 per month. We would have higher initial/ending costs due to cold water and colder temps and would have minimal costs during the summer months when the temps of the water would go above 84 and the heater would never run. Again, we have natural gas in NJ and I have nothing to compare the higher electric bills for a heat pump on our pool in FL since we have only used the heat pump on the spa.