2nd times a charm.......No Drain Acid Wash

[TXFlyGuy]

I would note that this is a "pebble" pool, and it can handle these treatments much better than a plaster pool could. Please be careful if you have a plaster pool and are considering this.

Well, not really. While it is a Stonescapes finish, it is still comprised of plaster. The difference being that the stone aggregate is added to the plaster mix.

If your position is that this makes the plaster inherently stronger, then you would be correct. But the pool finish is mostly plaster.

 

[Nightstew]

Stonescapes is a Pebble "knock off" that is sold to those in the pool industry through SCP. Any pool man can purchase it and have it installed, and there is no training or accountability for the installation, so its appearance can vary. That said, it is mixed at around 90-95% stones and the balance plaster. Plaster, on the other hand, is comprised of cement and limestone (current formulation), and is much "softer" than the stone products.

The strength is in the stone. You are correct that the plaster is holding it all together, but the amount is small in relation to the stone count. That does not mean that you cannot destroy this product also! It just means that there is greater strength in this formulation of pool finish than plaster.

Here, we see no drain acid washes with pH or TA of zero (different guys follow different methods). No drain acid washes on plaster goes to around 4 pH. I would not suggest taking the water to pebble levels on a plaster pool.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Stonescapes is a Pebble "knock off" that is sold to those in the pool industry through SCP. Any pool man can purchase it and have it installed, and there is no training or accountability for the installation, so its appearance can vary.

A bit off subject, but the total savings of Stonescapes vs. Pebble Tec was around $1,500. The accountability was in the reputation and experience of the plaster company, Atlantic Pools of Grand Prairie, Texas. And as the builder, the final responsibility for QC lies with me.

A long conversation with a Pebble Tec installer indicated that it's nearly impossible to get a pebble type pool that is 100% uniform in appearance. There will always be a bit of variation, although it may be small.

Based on quotes received from big name pool builders, I could literally afford to build this pool twice and still be money ahead. Just a note of interest to all of you DIY types!

 

[HouTex]

Based on quotes received from big name pool builders, I could literally afford to build this pool twice and still be money ahead. Just a note of interest to all of you DIY types!

Exactly. My PB walked my job after installing the tile and coping. I had to buy and install the equipment, do the electrical, finish the plumbing and do the plaster. I spent about $12k finishing up the pool and another PB quoted me about $25k to finish the job.

 

[dmtranman]

TxFlyGuy,

I just tried your no drain method on my pool. I brought the pH down using 4 gallons of acid on my 16,000 gallon pool and added scaletec yesterday. I brushed today but didn't really notice a difference.

Did you notice a difference after the first day? Or was it not until after 48 hours that you started to notice the improvement?

Thanks!

 

[TXFlyGuy]

TxFlyGuy,

I just tried your no drain method on my pool. I brought the pH down using 4 gallons of acid on my 16,000 gallon pool and added scaletec yesterday. I brushed today but didn't really notice a difference.

Did you notice a difference after the first day? Or was it not until after 48 hours that you started to notice the improvement?

Thanks!

Perseverance is the key here. We did two separate no-drain acid treatments. The first one lasted 4 days. Improvement was noted after the second day. After day 4 it seemed like I was not getting any more positive results, so the treatment was ended at that point. But at this time it appeared that about 70 - 75% of the scale was removed. I also brushed the pool about once every 90 minutes...someone told me the more, the better!

It was on the second treatment that the final amount of scale was removed. The first treatment utilized 5 1/2 gal. of MA. The second time we used 8 gallons. And after 48 hours (2nd time) the visual impact was amazing in that this was the first time since the pool was built that the plaster appeared the way it was supposed to.

It was on this forum that someone suggested doing a follow up treatment...I'm glad I took the advice!

Good luck to you!

 

[Gods6monkeys]

Thank you for posting this... I'm going to give this a shot tomorrow!

 

[Stu7]

Thanks also from me as I am going to try this.

A couple of questions however, as my pool is plaster, what extra care should I take versus this wash on pebble/plaster? What is the target pH?

Thanks,
Stuart

 

[Bart]

I too have a calcium scale problem that appeared for the first time this year (2nd opening of the pool). The pool company said that "scale sometimes just happens" (which I don't believe. I feel they are trying to cover their tracks and deflect blame for improperly closing the pool). Anyhow, they told me to kill the pump, add 4 gals muriatic acid, brush for 2 days to remove the scale, bring the ph back up and turn the pump back on.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether 4 gallons is enough? I see that TXFlyGuy did it once with 5 gals and got a lot off, but had to do it a second time with 8 gallons to properly complete the job. I'm wondering if he just started with 8 gallons, he could have gotten the same results with one treatment? Or if two treatments are actually more effective?

My pool is also 30,000 gallons, so I'm wondering if I trust the pool company and go with 4 gallons or follow TXFly's lead and add 8 gallons?

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Bart]

For those of you playing along at home, here's what I did and here are my results:

Thursday night - turned off pump, removed the Polaris and added 4 gallons of muriatic acid. I also added 2, 1-Quart bottles of "Les Iron". I brushed the entire pool to mix in the acid two times that night.

Friday - brushed/mixed up the water in the morning and in the evening.

Saturday - brushed every couple hours all day long.

Sunday - gave it a final brushing or two in the morning then added half a bottle of "pH Raise" and half a bottle of "pH Stabilizer" and mixed it all up. I took the pH a couple hours later and it was a little low so I added another 1/4 bottle of each and it was about 7.2-7.4. I hooked up the Polaris and turned on the pump and resumed brushing the dust down towards the drain.


When I started, I had calcium scaling on every surface that was under water. The stuff on the walls was sharp, but could be scraped off with a fingernail or piece of plastic. The stuff on the bottom, steps, bench and tanning ledge (horizontal surfaces) was bumpy and also sharp but couldn't be rubbed or scraped off no matter how much I tried. Before I started, I had an OK feeling about the walls, but I was really worried about the floors because they seemed so much worse and did not respond to scraping.

After a day of the treatment, the brushing removed most of the scale from the walls! After the second and third day it was just about all gone!!! The floors showed a lot of improvement but they were still pretty rough. The color returned to normal, and probably 60-70% of the stuff was removed but it was still sharp/bumpy to the touch. The good news was that I was now able to scrape some of the "bumps" off the flat surfaces like I was formerly able to do with the walls.

Results - Walls - 95-99% back to normal....
Floors - 65% back to normal, but still need work

I'm feeling pretty good, but I know there's still a lot of work ahead.

For the rest of the week, I'm going to concentrate on removing all the "scale dust" that is now either deposited on the bottom or is mixed up in the (now cloudy) water, via brushing and running the pump.

 

[Bart]

Part II -

I talked to the pool guy who told me to do the 4 gallon acid wash and his advice was to do it again with 6 or 8 gallons. He also said I could leave out the "Les Iron" this time. But other than that it was the same.....kill the pump, remove the polaris, add the acid, brush, etc.

I'm going to try to get the pool cleaned up and do a second treatment this weekend.

More to come....

 

[JasonBOC]

Just completed this on my pebble tec pool. Bought the house a couple years ago and had some lighter color blotchy areas that I didn't like and finally decided to try and tackle the job of getting rid of them. Drained the pool and used a garden sprayer to acid wash the pool. This left some stripes on the floor of the pool where the water channeled towards the deep end as well as some white areas in tight corners near steps etc that where plainly obvious one the pool was filled again.

Decided a no drain acid wash was the ticket. Added 10 gallons of acid to my 25k pool and brushed over 4 days and things looked great. Used a submersable pump to keep the water circulated during that time and positioned the hose over the streaked spots as well.

Needed to add about 45lbs of soda ash to get ph up again and then the water turned cloudy. Once ph was up I turned on my pump and it got slightly better for about a day and then clouded back up and pump pressure went up 12 psi over normal. Tried back washing the DE filter with no success. Had to clean the DE filter and after one day now pool looks brand new and water is clear. No blotches and no streaks.

Very happy I did this and thanks for posting the 2nd times a charm as I was about to give up. Looking back at this, I suspect I would wave gotten the same results with just a no drain acid wash and would recommend that first.

 

[overwhelmed2]

We did a no drain acid wash 3 weeks ago and our plaster is "dusting" or rubbing off when touched?

 

[pfknp]

I have had ..problem off and on for two years... entire life of pool. this thread is very very helpful. Last year I insisted that the PB drain and acid wash the pool. this did work... now a year later problem back... im sure it has something to do with adding too much calcium to the plaster mix for the pebbletec surface. last year it took me 3 months of insistance to get pebbletec installer to do the acid wash. (by the way, I am a woman... and for those 3 months both PB and Pebbletec instlaller were treatimg me as if I was "imagining" the white clouds... that this was normal color variation... women still get treated as if they don't know what they are talking about! So take note other women... stick to your guns and pursue the truth you know to be true!) .. back to pool discussion.... this year, don't want to have a battle with PB... even though pool is only 2 1/2 years olKd. I am going to take matters ino my own hands. I have a 17K gal, pebblesheen finish (Slate Blue ... now looking teal green from the white splotches), pentair quad DE filter and pentair pump, solar heat. I will post results. PS Live in florida, use pool all year.

 

[pfknp]

Here are pool originally, then last year when splotches appeared.... las year PB dhrained and acid washed... this year will do the no drain method because the spots are back.... will post after photos. This is a great site, glad I found!!

 

[pfknp]

Only 24 hours and a huge difference can be seen already. I have 17000gal, used 5 gal muriatic after shutting down pump. Here is before shot

 

[pfknp]

Well can't post after shot apparently I have too many uploads already... and no way to delete other photos. Weird. Maybe they will get deleted automatically as the photo manager says....

 

[scott_home]

To the pebble pool owners,

When you do this no drain acid wash, does the acidic water melt away the colored plaster as well as the scaling calcium? If it does knock off some plaster, do the pebbles fall off?

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Melt In The Sun]

It will dissolve some plaster, which may knock some pebbles loose. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Drew80]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm considering doing this to my brand new pool that wasn't started up properly. Anyone still around to answer questions?