Input requested on new pool proposal in Austin

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Barbja

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Sep 3, 2011
21
After lurking on this site for a while and gaining so much valuable information, I finally have a proposal of my own to request input.

Can you guys look at this proposal and let me know if I should change anything?

25x37 gunite geometric IGP (~675sqft) (12' wide at the deep end, stepping out to 25' at the shallow end).
134 perimeter
3 1/2' to 7.5' depth (with diving envelope)
24,000 gallons

6'x9.5' 18" raised pool area with with 9' tiled spillway (like a spa, but uses water from the main pool -- I like the idea of a spa area, but I don't like hot water)
Submerged limestone on the sun shelf (may change that to same tile as spillway)
WetEdge Satin Matrix (may change to primera stone)
70sqft ledger stone raised beam (for a drainage issue)

1/2" rebar 10" on center (for pool and spa)
8-10" gunite Floor/Walls
12" gunite ground beam
"upto" 2.5" Schedule 40 PVC

Heat pump to heat body of pool (haven't chosen which one yet)
Pentair Quad DE 80 filter
Pentair IntelliFlo VS-3050
Pentair WhisperFlow 1 1/2 HP (for IF cleaner)
Paramount PV3 Infloor cleaner w/leaf basket
Paramount O3 Ozone with Rainbow In-Line Chlorinator

Pentair EasyTouch P-4
Wireless 4 function remote (what kind? doesn't say)
3 Pentair Intellibrite Color LED (2 main pool, 1 spa area)
2 Bubblers for baja shelf
1 sheer for diving platform

5 Directional inlets returns, looped for even pressure
2 Pentair skimmers
1 MDX debris removal drain
3 AquaStar drains
Autofill

Issues:

I can't tell if the filter is appropriately sized or not.

Like many PBs in Texas, this pool builder won't do SWGs unless you waive the warranty on your coping. Apparently the type of limestone that is used here is very susceptible to damage with a SWG pool. So -- no SWG for me.

Right now he has 3 of the 5 returns running through the raised area of the pool so that the spillway has an adequate flow rate. I told him that I want to change that because when the pool is being heated, I'm going to lose a LOT of heat overnight when the pool is being cleaned or filtered with all that water going over the spillway. I asked him to figure out how to re-plumb the raised area so that its flow is independent from the main body of the pool. I don't care if they have to add another pump to get it done. Any ideas on this? It will use the same water as the main body of the pool, but I want to be able to turn on/off water going in/out of the raised area (or ideally just over the spillway).

I know that the IF cleaner is a hot button on this forum and it is a Really expensive item because of the size and shape of my pool. There will be a LOT of trees over and around this pool (one red oak overhanging a short side about 5' and live oaks completely lining one long side). I'm hoping that the IF cleaner will help me have to pay less attention to the pool than if I didn't have it. I know that a Polaris or robot would do the job, but I just wish my son were 5 years older so that I could give him the job of manning the cleaners...

Because of the incredible leafy situation, would I benefit from venturi skimmers? I haven't broached that subject with the designer because I don't want to bring up yet another thing that he has to research if it isn't going to benefit me. If you DO think that's a good idea, can you recommend one so that I can start him in the right direction?

Thanks!
 
A few comments:

- I think your "raised pool area" should be plumbed as a spa. If you don't like hot water, you don't have to heat it! But, if you ever sell the place, it's likely that the buyers would like the spa. If you'll never ever use it as a spa, I wouldn't even bother buying a heater, but I would definitely have everything plumbed up so it can be easily added later.

- If you want an SWG (I would), can you just get different coping? All these soft flagstones/limestones will degrade rather quickly, SWG or not. What is the warranty on the coping without an SWG?

- For leaves, it's tough to beat a cleaner with a big mesh bag like a Polaris. I wouldn't count on an in-floor cleaner working well for this. A Poolskim (google it) will help a lot with leaves as well.

- Bigger pipe is good, especially for suction lines. Double especially for spa suction lines (if you decide to do that).

- Ditch the ozone, it's just a waste of money on an outdoor pool.

- rather than looping the returns, I would want them valved so I could control them individually.
 
What Melt said. I would strongly suggest you get a SWG and find a coping that will hold up. You will get tired of lugging around bottles of bleach during the long Texas summers. Chlorine pucks are not a good option (don't listen to the pool stores).
 
Melt In The Sun said:
I think your "raised pool area" should be plumbed as a spa. If you don't like hot water, you don't have to heat it! But, if you ever sell the place, it's likely that the buyers would like the spa. If you'll never ever use it as a spa, I wouldn't even bother buying a heater, but I would definitely have everything plumbed up so it can be easily added later.
Click to expand...
The last thing that I asked him to do was to price out doing the raised area as a spa, subtracting the price of the heater, vs a raised portion of the pool. I want a heater in general (the heat pump) because I want to heat the body of the pool. Even though I'm in Texas, the pool will be on the North side of my house, with trees on two sides and my house on the other. It doesn't even get sun until at least 10:30a even in August. If I want to start swimming in April, it will need a heater. The gas line so that I could have a gas heater to heat the spa separately would cost me, wait for it, $4k. Yes, four thousand dollars! My own plumber that I've used for years and the PB agree on that one. My gas meter is as far away from my equipment pad as you can get and still be attached to my house.

They have agreed to let me supply the heat pump and they'd install it at no charge. Their list price on a heat pump is like $8k and its even on a model that has been discontinued. I think that every heat pump they have on poolheatpumps.com is under $5k, you can get a good one for $4k, or cheap out at $3k.

Melt In The Sun said:
If you want an SWG (I would), can you just get different coping? All these soft flagstones/limestones will degrade rather quickly, SWG or not. What is the warranty on the coping without an SWG?
Click to expand...
Their regular coping warranty is two years I believe. The material I want to use for the decking is a cementitious material that looks like travertine (I thought it was travertine when I saw it -- and after living in Austin for 30 years, I've seen a LOT of travertine). I'd like them to use the same thing for the coping if they can since I like the cantilevered look; I've already asked him to check into that.

Is SWG ok with cement?

Melt In The Sun said:
Bigger pipe is good, especially for suction lines. Double especially for spa suction lines (if you decide to do that).
Click to expand...
So I want to ask him for larger suction lines? 3"? Bigger than that?

Melt In The Sun said:
Ditch the ozone, it's just a waste of money on an outdoor pool.
Click to expand...
Can I have an Apex A8E with a contact tank instead of an infloor? Can I? Huh? It would be cheaper and blast more cr*p than that puny thing that they're proposing could ever hope to. Costing more than some peoples cars however is a sticking point.

Melt In The Sun said:
rather than looping the returns, I would want them valved so I could control them individually.
Click to expand...
Not knowing anything about 'pooling', how would I know how to set them individually? The OCDness in me would tend to set them all the same.
 
The pool design is right on the money for Type 1 inground pool according to the ANSI/NSPI-5 pool standard for residential inground pools:

http://www.apsp.org/DocumentFiles/412.pdf

It can vary for free-form pools, but if you're going geometric, 12' wide, then for all (see table 2):

6' deep 1.5' from the front of the envelope
7.5' deep no less than 7' from the 6' deep mark
5' deep no less than 7.5' from the 7.5' deep mark

Making that 12'x16' for a rectangular diving envelope, at least 7.5' deep at its deepest to the 5' mark.

The front of the envelope starts at the tip of the board, or the wall if using a diving platform or diving rock (section 5.9) (which is what we are having).

Are you saying that there is some other standard out there that I should be looking at? Perhaps there's something else in there about the width vs the depth and I was just focusing on the diving envelope... Anyone know for sure?
 
I dont know (nor am I any kind of an expert), It just caught my eye because I thought I had read somewhere before that the width had to be 2x the depth. I think it had to do with the idea that someone could/would dive in from the side and it reduces the chance of them hitting the wall on the opposite side under water.
 
That looks great!

Who is the builder?

We had the same trouble trying to get SWG, so we went with a low Chlorine/UV setup instead. The UV works amazingly well. When the PB was starting up the pool it ran for weeks without chlorine due to to the crappy rainbow tablet feeder not working with low flow rates. I don't have any regrets considering all the issues (or scare tactics) the PB told me about that they have had with SWG and older pools.

I picked an aquacal SQ175 heat pump to extend the swimming season to march and nov. It was the biggest and most efficient I could find, I think it was 5K delivered. PB installed it for free. I also use it to heat the hot tub, it takes about an hour and costs about 1/3 what it would be in Gas. Check out the thread I started on our build. It has a plumbing schematic I had to design for the PB because they didn't know how to accomplish what I wanted with 3 bodies of water. http://www.troublefreepool.com/under-construction-in-texas-water-in-it-finally-t26594.html

Only feedback I have for you is that 7.5' is not deep enough for kids finding things to jump off of into the pool. My 5 year old can easily touch the bottom with his hands when jumping off our 5 ft ledge into a 9.5' deep end.
 
shakenbake said:
That looks great!

Only feedback I have for you is that 7.5' is not deep enough for kids finding things to jump off of into the pool. My 5 year old can easily touch the bottom with his hands when jumping off our 5 ft ledge into a 9.5' deep end.
Click to expand...

Mine is 8' and while that seems deep enough I think 9' / 10' is better if your doing alot of diving. Going deeper does reduce the area of the shallow end though unless the overall length of the pool is increased.
 

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Ya know, it bothers me that these pool builders actively campaign against swg. Every one I interviewed advised against them due to corrosion issues with the salt water. Then they proceeded to sell me on the bogus Crud like nature this, or copper that, or mineral gizmo wonder sanitizer which they also sell the refills for!

Hmmm conflict of interest much?
 
shakenbake said:
That looks great! Who is the builder?
Click to expand...
My current PB of choice is Cody Pools. Although not the cheapest, they have been the most flexible and open-minded.
shakenbake said:
We had the same trouble trying to get SWG, so we went with a low Chlorine/UV setup instead. The UV works amazingly well.
Click to expand...
UV sanitizers are maligned on this board as much as Ozone ones are. You are happy with yours though? Considering that you are in Austin too, that carries a lot of weight. My PB offers a UV option; I'll look into it.
shakenbake said:
Only feedback I have for you is that 7.5' is not deep enough for kids finding things to jump off of into the pool. My 5 year old can easily touch the bottom with his hands when jumping off our 5 ft ledge into a 9.5' deep end.
Click to expand...
Oh my. Originally when we designed the pool, my son and I wanted the deep end to be 9.5' deep because that is about what he is comfortable with at public pools. Just that one depth change bumps the cost of my pool up about $7k! I talked it over with my son and we pushed it back to the 7.5' minimum to be more 'cost effective'. Maybe this evening I'll play with PoolStudio and see how much of my shallow end I lose by pushing to 9' deep or so (our highest point of entry will be 2').
shakenbake said:
Check out the thread I started on our build. It has a plumbing schematic I had to design for the PB because they didn't know how to accomplish what I wanted with 3 bodies of water. http://www.troublefreepool.com/under-construction-in-texas-water-in-it-finally-t26594.html
Click to expand...
Oh the carnage! But it looks like they were all cedar trees, so whatever :). I cannot Imagine your HOA guy having a snit over those trees. I love your three-bodied setup. It looks really cool.

shakenbake, do you have a copy of those schematics with a better resolution so that I can read them better? Knowing more about this stuff is never a bad thing, huh? Thanks!
 
I had a pool built with Cody 2 years ago. They build a nice pool, but when it comes to service after the sale, they have been atrocious. If you plan to do everything, then this isn't an issue. If you want someone there when you pick up the phone -- they have been consistently terrible. Though, I have no way of comparing their service to other companies.
 
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