Hard Plumbing of AGP Done (w/ pics and parts list)

[thepiratemorgan]

*****EDIT - Just finished the job, SEE MY LAST POST for pics and parts list.**************

I was encouraged by the other thread in this forum regarding hard plumbing my setup. I don't mean to ask to be spoon fed, but I am not a plumber by any means. I know how to prepare, prime, and glue pvc pipe, and that's about it. I would like to use a ball valve at the skimmer basket. I don't think I need one at the return, but then again, maybe someone could give me insight on why I might want one there too. I don't think I will tackle the piping from the pump to filter quite yet. I'll get my feet wet with this project first.
Also, somebody mentioned a "hayward union kit" for hayward pumps as a way to reduce "unions".
Sorry to blabber but I don't know what I need as far as being able to remove this setup for winter storage. I guess my problems are with the unions. Do things get permanently glued to the skimmer? return? I have pics of my current setup. And would be greatly appreciative if a kind soul could help a brother out in times of stupidity and maybe offer up some guidance, offer up some close up pics of your setup. Thank in advance for any and all help.
BTW- Don't care about ball valve in pic, if it can't be used in new setup ... oh well. As you can see in pic that its threaded one side, and slip on the other.

 

[BigT8600]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

These are some pics of my fountain install. Just done the return side so far. You can basically use an elbow in place of where I used the T that goes to my fountain. Note that the middle part is a union that allows me to remove the pump from the pool. It screws together the two pieces and allows for easy disconnect. Valves on the return side are good so you can shut it off and remove the pump and piping from the pool even if the water is up. It can save you on water if you are just doing work on your filter.

look at the top connectors on these pipes. These connectors are 1.5" threaded connectors that let you screw into your return. You unscrew your current fitting for your hose connection off the back of the return. Replace it with this and glue your pipe into it to an elblow that goes down to your filter outlet. Make sure and use lots of teflon tape to prevent leaks! Tighten it real good with your hand, no need to use a wrench.

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

That's EXACTLY the information I was looking for. Some pics on what I would be looking for in store, and great information on how things go together. What I don't want is to permanently glue anything to the return or the skimmer, and now I see how things are done to avoid that. Now is there a 1 1/2" threaded connector on the skimmer side? I'm guessing so, I will have to go out in a bit and take a second / third look at mine.

And from what I understand is that I can get a union connector for my Hayward Power Flo Matrix like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-Power-Flo ... B004UJJDNW
and glue that onto sch 40 PVC for the pump side.

As for the filter side, I would use same threaded / slip connector, immediately followed by a union so that section would be removable as well. I need to winter store my setup.

OK, I'm starting to figure this out, I think. Time for a "parts list".

One last ??? - Looks like you used clear PVC glue, do you recommend a brand?? And are the glued joints done the same ways as a few years ago??? Scuff sand inside pipe, scuff sand outside pipe, prime, glue, press and hold for minute or so.

Thanks so far for your help.

 

[BigT8600]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

I think you use the same threaded piece on the skimmer side. Reason I didn't do it yet was because I just now got my skimmer to quit leaking around the threads. Thinking about what exactly I want to do with it, and may just wait until the Springtime to deal with it.

That Union looks like a great option to allow you to disconnect. One reason I like where my union connects is because I can remove more of the piping over the winter and less for my dog to mess with!

I don't have a specific glue I like, just grabbed some medium duty glue from the pvc isle. I thought I had primer at home but turns out I didn't so I didnt use any! Yikes! But it worked anyway. I didn't scuff anything either but it sure wouldn't hurt. Main thing I found important was coating the outside of one piece and inside of the joint then when placing the pipe in the joint giving it a good turn to tighten it down. The joints are supposedly concave to where they hold the pvc in the joint pretty well.

The only thing I wish I would have done different was buy more threaded connectors, T's, elbows, 45's, etc...and just returned what I didn't use. I could have gotten more creative! Good luck!

PS...you could go one step further and put in the fountain like I did! Its our favorite part of the pool now! Keeps it much cooler and fun to listen to.

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

The only thing I wish I would have done different was buy more threaded connectors, T's, elbows, 45's, etc...and just returned what I didn't use. I could have gotten more creative! Good luck!

So the elbows, T's and 45's I see in your setup are threaded? Do they make PVC straight pipe that's threaded on one end? I thought most, if not all of those connections were glued? Only one not is the piece that threads into return. I don't blame you for not worrying about your skimmer side, luckily it's a low pressure side. I have yet, knock on wood, to have a hose split on that side of system. Had two split on return side.

giving it a good turn to tighten it down

Yep, forgot that part ... thanks.

And as for the fountain, you definitely have me thinking .... and thinking .... :lol:

 

[BigT8600]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

No they aren't threaded. What I meant by that statement was just to over buy a lot of parts in order to get creative with my plumbing. The only threaded parts I used were for the return jet, output of filter, and the ends of my fountain pipes.

 

[linen]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

I agree with BigT that you want a valve on both the vacuum side and return side of the equipment. That way you can isolate the equipment from the pool for repair, etc. I prefer to use valves and unions with female threads on both sides. That means having threaded male adapters to mate up with them. This saves these more expensive parts if you have to redo plumbing, etc. I would put a union on your input and output of the pump, outlet from your filter, also at/below the skimmer, and below/before the return. Those union will make it easy to store away the pipes in the winter, and easily remove the pump if needed.

 

[cramar]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

BigT, that return plumbing is EXACTLY what I'm looking to do on my pool, it looks great!

The holes that you drilled in the PVC for the fountain spray: how wide are the individual holes, how far apart are they spaced and do you find the spray pressure adequate (too high or low?).

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

Thanks for your help guys, I "think" I am figuring this out. With the pics, and the the explanations, and "some" knowledge ... I am off to Lowe's soon for some parts that they actually list online (very nice). The usual suspects ... pipe, elbows, unions, ball valves, teflon tape, PVC glue ... whew, almost know what I'm talking about ... :lol: I understand all parts need to be sch 40 rated for pressure and not just DWV. Will post pics in the coming weeks, when I get a chance to get at this project. Might as well work on it when I go to close my pool.

One last question, anyone living in cold climates worried about, or have experience with, the ball valves cracking in cold weather??? I live up here in the tundra, and it can get pretty cold ... noticed under specs for the ball valve on Lowe's website ... "Frost Proof - NO"
Obviously, I will be keeping them open during winter and have a return plug and Aquador skimmer cover in place.

 

[BigT8600]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

BigT, that return plumbing is EXACTLY what I'm looking to do on my pool, it looks great!The holes that you drilled in the PVC for the fountain spray: how wide are the individual holes, how far apart are they spaced and do you find the spray pressure adequate (too high or low?).

Glad to hear it helped some people. I like the advice from above about using a lot of threaded parts. Because once you glue in the valves like I did, you just locked $12 into your system and if you screw something up you have to buy another one :x

Holes are 1/16". I basically used a carpenters square clamped to the pipe and drew a straight line using a sharpie. I took off the square and clamped the pipe to my workbench and just tried to drill evenly. If i could do it again (and I will, when I'm not in such a hurry with a pool party the same night lol!) I would mark out holes evenly apart.

The spray pressure is perfect. If I open my valve all the way and keep the main return valve on full as well, the fountain almost reaches the other side. I have a .75hp pump if that helps you figure out anything. I think I will make my pipes a little longer so I can have a wider fountain but will stay with 1/16" holes to get maximum aeration and water cool down.

One last question, anyone living in cold climates worried about, or have experience with, the ball valves cracking in cold weather??? I live up here in the tundra, and it can get pretty cold ... noticed under specs for the ball valve on Lowe's website ... "Frost Proof - NO" Obviously, I will be keeping them open during winter and have a return plug and Aquador skimmer cover in place.

Glad you found it helpful. I live In the South where I probably wont even close my pool until November! So I don't really have to worry about it. Good luck and post back with pics!!

 

[linen]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

One last question, anyone living in cold climates worried about, or have experience with, the ball valves cracking in cold weather??? I live up here in the tundra, and it can get pretty cold ... noticed under specs for the ball valve on Lowe's website ... "Frost Proof - NO"
Obviously, I will be keeping them open during winter and have a return plug and Aquador skimmer cover in place.

I leave mine open, but make sure water can't get to them, plug end of pipe with a rubber cap if needed. Oh...and don't turn em when it is 30 below

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

One last question, anyone living in cold climates worried about, or have experience with, the ball valves cracking in cold weather??? I live up here in the tundra, and it can get pretty cold ... noticed under specs for the ball valve on Lowe's website ... "Frost Proof - NO"
Obviously, I will be keeping them open during winter and have a return plug and Aquador skimmer cover in place.

I leave mine open, but make sure water can't get to them, plug end of pipe with a rubber cap if needed. Oh...and don't turn em when it is 30 below

LOL >>> Sounds good, advice will be heeded!!

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

I grabbed all my essentials from Lowes and this week will be tackling this project. My last question is, I have Oatey's General Purpose glue and Oatey's PVC Cleaner. Do I need a primer if I use the cleaner first, and then the glue??? If I need a primer, do they make clear primer?? I don't want to see purple lines on my joints if I don't have to.

 

[duraleigh]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

The cleaner IS the primer. It's a two step process.....cleaner/primer and then glue.

Just like you, I despise the runny purple lines and refuse to use that stuff.

I think in some locales, it might be code so the inspector can visually see you used primer. I would use purple water colors until the inspector left and then wipe it off!!

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

Thank you for your response, I kind of thought that was the case because instructions for cleaner was to leave it on then apply glue. I took want a "clean" look, so much so that I "plan" on trying to keep the writing on the pipe either towards the ground or towards the pool / pump / return. I hate that red writing !!!! Well, here I go ... if all goes well, I will post some pics.

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

Update - Tackled and successfully completed the skimmer side of my setup yesterday. Decided to tackle return side with a fresh mind, and body, today, but the rains came. And it's supposed to be rainy next few days. Oh well. Skimmer side went real well, hope it holds water!!! Won't know until next year!! (Pool closed). But I followed cleaner / primer and glue instructions, skuffed the fittings, pressed ... 1/4 turn ... held, so they should "hold water". When I get the system complete I will post pics here. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[garrybunk]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

Just curious, what is the big advantage to changing over to PVC lines versus the flex hoses? Is it just because the flex hoses are more likely to burst? Does the PVC increase your flow rate and therefore circulation? What about using flexible PVC instead of standard PVC? Might be a future project here if I see it's of great benefit.

I can't wait to see your pictures! And do show us photos of detail too.

Thanks,
Garry

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing

Just curious, what is the big advantage to changing over to PVC lines versus the flex hoses? Is it just because the flex hoses are more likely to burst? Does the PVC increase your flow rate and therefore circulation? What about using flexible PVC instead of standard PVC? Might be a future project here if I see it's of great benefit.

I can't wait to see your pictures! And do show us photos of detail too.

Thanks,
Garry

Pretty much the only advantage is the reduction of split hoses. I had one split, of course, while on vacation. I was lucky to have a father-in-law catch it just after it happened. That was the second hose I had go on me in 5 seasons. The other one split and I came home to a fountain that I didn't know I had after work one day.

As for flexible PVC, my father-in-law runs it and has had no problems for 8 seasons, has a new pool and same setup and no problems last 2 seasons. I just don't like the look of it or the giant unions that he has on it the last 2 seasons. Seriously, they're monstrous. Don't know if the unions he has was the only option, pool store installed them.

I won't get to the return side until probably next week as we are getting rain next couple days and I am leaving for weekend. But when it is said and done, I will post pics in this thread. I will get some close ups and post a parts list also.

 

[thepiratemorgan]

Re: Need help with AGP hard plumbing (Now done w/ Pics)

Well, I took on the job of hard plumbing my AGP and it is finished. I decided against a fountain because we seriously don't need any cooling of our water up here in the tundra. Would have been useful for the aeration aspects, but the cons of additional chances of leaks outweighed the small benefit of aeration. Guess I'll just turn the eyeball to the sky as I have practiced in the past. As promised, here are some pics and a parts list. You can ignore the "finished the job reward" in the middle of the setup.
I used a ball socket that had one unionized end and one slip end, as seen in pics for return and skimmer (found only at Lowe's so I have heard). I special ordered (internet) a union designed and sold by Hayward for my pump.

Parts List (ALL PARTS were bought from Lowe's except for Hayward Union):

Hayward Union Connector Kit SP1500UNPAK2
(x3) 1 1/2" Sch 40 Male Adapter (Lasco Item #: 23903 |  Model #:436015RMC)
(x2) 1 1/2" Sch 40 PVC Pipe x 10' (Charlotte Pipe Item #: 23830 |  Model #VC 07112 0600)
(x7) 1 1/2" Sch 40 Elbow (Lasco Item #: 23909 |  Model #:406015RMC)
SCH40 PVC Glue - Oatey's General Purpose
SCH40 PVC Cleaner / Primer – Oatey's

Either: (Best option)
(x2) 1 1/2" T-Handle PVC Single Union Ball Valve (American Valve Item #: 209669 |  Model #200SUE 1 1/2)
(x1) 1 1/2" PVC Union SCH40 Socket (American Valve Item #: 188223 |  Model #240S 1 1/2)
(For Filter)

Or:
(x2) 1 1/2" PVC Ball Socket Valve (American Valve Item #: 21488 |  Model #200S 1 1/2)
(x3) 1 1/2" PVC Union SCH40 Socket (American Valve Item #: 188223 |  Model #240S 1 1/2)

 

[garrybunk]

Looks great! And looks pretty easy to do. So your valves at the skimmer & return will stay in place through the winter? Is the Hayward Union missing in these photos? Or where is it? I'm confused what is special about the Hayward Union.

Do you think all the 90º elbows will restrict the flow any? Or would the difference be negligible? I've read of others using 45º's instead for that purpose, but I'm not sure how you'd even do that in your setup. Guess you won't really be able to test for flow & pressure 'til Spring.

Garry