Which Intermatic is Right for Me.

[wkuengineer]

I need to purchase a timer for my 1 1/2 Hayward pool pump. I am not for sure which Intermatic I should get, the T101 or T104. Below is a picture of my wiring setup. The far left dual switch supplies my pump. The second dual switch supplies a booster pump for my Polaris automatic cleaner. The 2 right single switches feed two 120V electrical outlets. I am not for sure what voltage my motor is wired. I cannot get the cover off for it is rusted and the screws stripped. Can anyone tell me, based of the photo, which timer I should buy and what voltage the pump is wired for? I am in need of a new pump soon and will need to know this. I do know the booster pump is wired "high voltage" (this is what the wiring diagram calls it - assume 230?)

Thanks for the help.

 

[Dalandlord]

If your pump is running off the double pole breaker in the left then the motor is set up to 220volts if that helps any. And yes the booster pump is set up for 220v as well. I am not familiar with the intermatic model numbers. That looks like 12/2 wire but the older wire wasn't color coded. That would be a 20 amp circuit but you can confirm it by reading the number on the breaker.

 

[wkuengineer]

Thanks. Each pole is 20 amps. The T101 is SPST and the T104 is DPST. Looks like it is the T104 is what I need.

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

Things I noticed:

20 Amp breakers.

It looks like it was never inspected. I see red wires in the common bar, 14/2 indoor wire to the pumps where 12 gauge stranded and color coded wires should be used, This is a hazard condition, and a serious set at that. If someone didn't look in this panel before doing work, they could get seriously hurt or killed.

Scott

 

[Bama Rambler]

Thanks. Each pole is 20 amps. The T101 is SPST and the T104 is DPST. Looks like it is the T104 is what I need.

You got it right, but for the wrong reason. The T101 has a 120 volt clock motor and the T104 has a 240 (208-277) volt clock motor.

You need the 240 volt clock motor for your setup.

 

[wkuengineer]

Things I noticed:

20 Amp breakers.

It looks like it was never inspected. I see red wires in the common bar, 14/2 indoor wire to the pumps where 12 gauge stranded and color coded wires should be used, This is a hazard condition, and a serious set at that. If someone didn't look in this panel before doing work, they could get seriously hurt or killed.

Scott

I'm not an electrician so forgive me for asking these questions. I want to know what is going on before I talk to anyone to come out and fix it. 1st, what is wrong with the red wires to the common bar? What potentional issues could/will this cause? 2nd, my pumps are in need of replacment (probably next year) so I can replace the wire for those. Is the red wires going into the common bar the only other issue?

 

[CraigMW]

"1st, what is wrong with the red wires to the common bar?" The convention for 220V is that Black and Red are the two poles, white being neutral and green or bare copper being ground. It appears (though it's not entirely clear from the picture) that black and white are being used for line, and the red wire is acting as the source neutral. There are two significant hazards here. First, it is not clear from the lack of adhering to code-specified wiring colors which wires are neutrals and which are load/line wires. Second, this appears to be a main lug sub-panel and yet the grounds and neutrals appear to be tied into the same neutral bar. There should be a separate grounding terminal bar in this scenario. This could be a significant hazard, so a potential issue that could be caused by this would be electrocution if you get a short to ground on a circuit.

A third issue that should be addressed is that there are no GFCI breakers. The pumps should be on GFCI breakers to meet more recent NEC code requirements. This should also apply to any circuit that feeds pool lighting. In this case, the issue is one of electrocution of people swimming in the pool. Best to get this checked out by a licensed electrician, because that sub-panel is a major mess.

 

[wkuengineer]

Thanks for the reply. The far right breaker feeds a GFCI outlet. The pool light is tied to the load on that outlet. I assume that is ok? The light actually doesn't work and it is disconnected right now.

This is good information. I leave in an area that has one pool place and they use the same people to wire everything. There are many homes in my neighborhood that used this company to install their pools. I bet I am not the only one that has a panel that looks at this.

 

[CraigMW]

Yeah, I think it's okay to use a GFCI outlet for pool lighting, though I'm not certain about whether or not it needs to be hardwired in the NEC. But any GFCI protection is better than none. I'm surprised that the building inspector didn't pick up on that wiring when the pool was installed, because none of that would have passed around here. In addition to the non-code compliant wiring colors used, they also used what appears to be Romex and I am pretty sure that is also not to code.

Assuming all of the wiring is correct, the only major problem I see is the lack of a separate ground terminal. All of the grounds and neutrals are tied into the same neutral terminal bar, which as I said, could be a significant hazard on a sub-panel. On a main panel, it's expected that the ground and neutral buses be tied together, but not on a subpanel.

 

[wkuengineer]

I plan on buying a separate grounding bar soon. I have several electricians I work with that have offered to rework this for me. Thanks to all for the help.