I need a gameplan and help with pool controls

[jimrockford]

I just bought a home with a pool and need some help to get started. The previous owner had a pool service and the water was crystal clear when we moved in. Now, after a couple of weeks, the water is a bit cloudy and slightly green.

I've been to the pool store twice for water testing and chemicals and the pool is gradually getting worse. I've since discovered this site and see the error of my ways. I ordered a TF-100 kit tonight, read through the pool school stuff, and looked at several "just getting started" posts to familiarize myself with what you guys need to help me out. So, first off, the results of my last water test:

FAC: 0
TAC: 0
CH: 200
CYA: 99
TA: 90
pH: 7.8
Phosphates: 100

The pool store recommended adding 3 bags of chlorine shock treatment and an algaecide, waiting 12 hours between each bag of chlorine. About 10 hours after adding the last bag, I tested the water for chlorine using a test kit that the previous owner left but was not able to detect any chlorine. I'm not sure if the test kit is any good since it looks like it may have been stored outside in the weather for several years, but I'm sure the high CYA level isn't helping either. Either way, I should have the new test kit next week.

Regardless, I don't know how to proceed and other than turning the filter on and off, I'm not sure how to properly operate the pool system. Can someone help identify what each lever does in the following photos? Specifically, I'm not sure which lever to adjust to backwash the filter and I'm not sure where the outlet is. I thought it was the pipe with the viewing window (far left vertical pipe closest to heater), but that goes into the ground. Is that normal?

Update: I thought the pool had a sand filter but now realize it uses a cartridge, so I guess that's why I couldn't figure out how to backwash it. So, now I guess the question is how do I drain water out of the pool?

I probably should have taken some pictures of the pool while it was still light out but didn't. However, it is about 9000 gallons (I think) with a separate spa. The pool has two drains in the deep end, four return jets in the pool walls, and one skimmer. The spa has a drain on the bottom, another near the bottom but vertical, a return jet in the center of the bottom, and four jets around the sides.

Anyway, the photos:

 

[Patrick_B]

Hey there, welcome to the forum. If your tests from the pool store are correct, you shouldn't add more of the powdered shock as it is likely either Di-Chlor or Tri-Chlor, which contain CYA. Their test only goes to 100 usually and you may have more than that...maybe not. Hard to trust their results, but until you know I think its best not to add more. Especially if they used strips read by a machine and spit out of a computer.

You do however need bleach (liquid chlorine) to get your chlorine level up. Also, since the water is cloudy and or green/greenish, you will need to shock. Shocking isn't something you do and walk away, but a process of keeping your FC high for a period of time. How long depends on your results, so you have to test, maintain the levels, and repeat until you are done. See how to shock your pool in pool school. All the algae is comsuming the Chlorine you put in, but it is possible that your kit could be bad. Can you tell us which kit it is? According to the pool calculator, you need 39 PPM FC to shock. If it were me, I would try working my way up to this level by adding bleach or liquid chlorine. It will take a fair amount, as the calc calls for 5 and 3/4 gallons to get you there. That is for 6% bleach, so it might be the "ultra" version depending on where you buy it. If you go bleach remember not to buy scented or thickened products however. Just read on the label and make sure it says 6% Sodium Hypochlorite under the active ingredients. If it were me, Id do just that and you need to run the pump 24/7 while shocking. You may need to clean the filter before you're done as well. Personally, I would skip the algaecide too. The bleach will take care of it I assure you, and some algae killers have negatives like metals (copper) I don't want in my pool. You really need to test with the FAS DPD Chlorine test while shocking, but if you wait, the algae will get much worse. I bet your old kit will show some residual once you add enough bleach though.

As for your valves, I cant tell you, but that is a pretty nice looking setup and Im sure done right. Others knowing more about cart filters will have to help you on replacing water and guess on the valves. You should experiment on them to see which returns/drains are controlled by which valves. Or that is what I would do. Sorry I can only offer this to help, but there will be others along today who know more. I hope this helps some, so let us know how it goes.

 

[zea3]

The best way to drain your pool would be to get a submersible pump. To get a better idea how high the CYA really is, mix 1 part pool water with 1 part tap water and test the CYA level. Double the result. Chlorine pools are easier to operate with CYA levels between 30-50, so you would need to drain some of the water to lower the CYA level. When you have a better estimate of the true CYA level we can tell you how much needs to be drained.

To get rid of the algae you will need plenty of liquid chlorine. How much will depend on the CYA level.

It looks like there are the remains of labels on top of the plumbing. Can you make out anything on the labels? Otherwise you may need to get a couple of folks to watch the pool and see what changes when you move the valves. Do not move the valves when the pump is running! Do you have any water features such as fountains or deck jets?

 

[duraleigh]

At this point, I would suggest you go into a holding pattern until you own kit arrives (Wednesday).

I'm not sure, but your pool might be a little bigger than you think. Please post the dimensions of your pool along with the average depth and let's be sure of the gallons. Then, add some liquid chlorine but I want to confirm the gallons before we suggest how much.

(if there are pucks in that chlorinator, please let us know that, too)

 

[BadOleRoss]

I would wait on any water changes as well. Until your test kit arrives we really dont know what your true CYA level is. My pool store said I was at 30 and it was really closer to 200. As soon as you can post the pools demensions and average depth someone can recommend a good starting point to add some bleach to the pool. You will need to shock the pool without a doubt.....start stocking up on bleach! Impressive looking pump set up! Glad I dont have to figure out what it does!

 

[jimrockford]

Thanks for the quick responses! To answer your questions:

• The water is definitely cloudy but I think the green has dissipated. Here are current photos from this evening (Sunday):
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  [/*:3lq5r9td]
• The test kit the previous owner left is an Aquality Mark IV test kit. It says it has reagents for chlorine, bromine, pH, alkalinity and acid demand.
  
  
  [/*:3lq5r9td]
• It does look like the plumbing was labeled at one point, but the Florida sun has bleached them completely white and most of them have disintegrated.[/*:3lq5r9td]
• It doesn't have any water features other than the area where the spa water overflows into the main pool when the filter is running.[/*:3lq5r9td]
• The pool is about 25 feet long, 14 feet wide at the shallow end, and 12 feet wide at the deep end. It ranges from 3 feet to 6 feet deep[/*:3lq5r9td]
• The chlorinator is empty[/*:3lq5r9td]

Thanks for your help!

 

[htownjeeper]

As a fellow newbie, I can tell you to listen to these guys and follow the Pool School and read read read read! The new test kit you'll be getting is awesome. It tells me everything I want to know and the Pool Calculator is great as well. You'll have that thing in shape in no time...

 

[Optica]

I'll take a shot at your pool controls but you will need to confirm with the help of a friend, watching or feeling flow when you turn valves. (always smart to do with pump off until you understand the system).

The 4 pipes coming in and going to the front of the pump are your pump vacuum supply lines. The pump uses these to draw water from your pool to the pump. I would bet that the single pipe below the automatic valve is the supply from your spa and the other three with the manual valves are from the skimmer, main drain, dedicated pool cleaner port. The manual valves would be used to set flow rates or to isolate one from the others.

Do you have a dedicated pool cleaner in the pool and do you know if it is on the suction side (water goes into it) or pressure side (water comes out of it and powers it)

The valve way in the back low is for the solar heating panels on your roof. When the system wants to heat and senses heat is available, the valve opens and forces the water to flow up to the roof and back. When valve is closed, water bypasses the solar and continues to the gas heater.

After the heater, the pipe is split into 3 where one pipe by the automatic valve is probably your spa return, and the other 2 are for the pool jet returns and a water feature (fountain or non aerated spa spill over mode) or dedicated pressure side pool cleaner port.

Since you have automatic valves, your controller should have selections on it like spa mode or pool mode, may also have solar heating settings and such. You can probably look up the manuf. and model number of the controller and download the user manual from the manuf. website, if the orig owner did not leave these with you.

 

[jimrockford]

I'll take a shot at your pool controls but you will need to confirm with the help of a friend, watching or feeling flow when you turn valves. (always smart to do with pump off until you understand the system).

The 4 pipes coming in and going to the front of the pump are your pump vacuum supply lines. The pump uses these to draw water from your pool to the pump. I would bet that the single pipe below the automatic valve is the supply from your spa and the other three with the manual valves are from the skimmer, main drain, dedicated pool cleaner port. The manual valves would be used to set flow rates or to isolate one from the others.

Do you have a dedicated pool cleaner in the pool and do you know if it is on the suction side (water goes into it) or pressure side (water comes out of it and powers it)

The valve way in the back low is for the solar heating panels on your roof. When the system wants to heat and senses heat is available, the valve opens and forces the water to flow up to the roof and back. When valve is closed, water bypasses the solar and continues to the gas heater.

After the heater, the pipe is split into 3 where one pipe by the automatic valve is probably your spa return, and the other 2 are for the pool jet returns and a water feature (fountain or non aerated spa spill over mode) or dedicated pressure side pool cleaner port.

Since you have automatic valves, your controller should have selections on it like spa mode or pool mode, may also have solar heating settings and such. You can probably look up the manuf. and model number of the controller and download the user manual from the manuf. website, if the orig owner did not leave these with you.

Thank you for your insightful response. Using your explanation, I played with the valves a bit and here's what I've learned so far:

• The 4 pipes on the right are vacuum supply lines as you said. From right to left, the first and second pipes are (I believe) for the skimmer and main drain. The third pipe controls the dedicated pool cleaner port which I had mistaken for a return line. That thing Dang near ripped my hand off when I reached down to see if it was doing anything. I guess that's why it's in the off position. It's definitely on the suction side. And, as you said, the lone pipe on the other side of the valve must be for the spa supply.[/*:3m6tank2]
• The 3 pipes on the left are water return lines. The left two are for the pool jets (with the window) and the spa spillover feature. But, I'm not sure what the last pipe on the other side of the automatic valve does. However, both automatic valves move when moving the spa controller switch between Auto, Drain, and Fill. Is that what it sounds like? Can I drain and fill the pool with that switch?[/*:3m6tank2]
• The bottom valve for the solar panels seems to operate as you suggest. The other valve near that one switches between heat for the spa or both the spa and pool (I think). The controller has settings for both scenarios.[/*:3m6tank2]

I did have a concern when I tested the pool cleaner valve. It was difficult to move unlike the other valves. I suspect the O-ring or whatever creates a seal within the valve was bone dry. Does it need to be left open occasionally to keep it lubricated? Or is there some sort of maintenance I should perform on it? Or worse, is it shot?

And, finally, my last questions deal with cleaning the cartridge filter and pump basket. With the filter off, can I just open those up and clean the parts? If so, how do I re-prime the pump? I'm guessing the water will drain back into the pool leaving air in the lines.

 

[CombatYoga]

Please make sure to figure out the manufacturer of your filter and go online to read the owner's manual.
Those things operate under pretty serious pressure, and you could be injured (or worse) if you start taking it apart without bleeding the air out first.

If you cant figure out the manufacturer/model, there are posts on here about the best ways to clean/replace cartridges in those types of filters that should
be able to get you through the process.

 

[Optica]

Great, you got most of it figured out. The return pipe that you are not sure of (directly below the auto valve) should be the spa return. It should send water to the jets in the spa. The other spa return is to add water to the spa for spilllover effect but not through the jets, it uses a different pipe so it can get water into the spa without the massage bubbles. I didn't see an air blower for the spa in your setup, do you have air bubbles come out of your spa jets when in spa mode? You may have manual venturi's that inject air.

If you keep the spa supply valve open, but send water back to the pool (spa return closed) , you can drain the spa. reverse this and you can fill the spa. I believe these are the modes you are referring to on the controller. It would not drain or fill the pool, only the spa. If you drain the spa, make sure you turn off the pump before it sucks air.

Combatyoga is correct about your filter, there can be high pressure that needs to be bled before you attemp to open it up. get the manual as he suggests and read up on how to open it. I think most people use a hose to wash off any dirt and crud. If it has deposits (calcium..) you can soak it in a weak (4:1) solution of water & muriatic acid to remove the deposits. they sell a cleaning chemical you can spray on the filter to help remove dirt and oils, but I do not know how well that works. Check the pressure gauge on top of the filter before you start when the pump is running normally and check it again after you clean the filter. You use the pressure gauge to tell you when your filter is dirty enough to be cleaned by monitoring the pressure rise over time. Typically its when it rises 6-9 PSI from its nominal clean pressure its time to clean. your filter manual should spell this out.

I also see a chlorine tablet autochlorinator in your piping by the filter. Are you using this? When you get your test kit be sure to do the CYA test as constant use of tablets can raise your CYA above what you would want. this would be handy if you went on vacation or something, but for day to day use it can drive up your CYA or calcium levels depending on the type of tablet you use.

I have many of those Jandy valves but never had one go bad, so I can't help you there. You might want to open the valve up and inspect (with the pump off of course).

Once you get your test kit, run all the tests and post your results here.

 

[jimrockford]

I've read through the manuals for both the filter and pump and think I've got a pretty good understanding of the cleaning process. Thanks for the advice CombatYoga.

Also, Optica, I believe you're correct again. That unknown pipe does appear to be for the spa jets. And, yes, there is an air blower. It's just hidden behind the heater. I wasn't sure what it was until I started testing the controller and it kicked on.

The chlorinator is empty. I was planning to buy some tablets before I found this site. I'm glad I waited.

I'm really looking forward to having my test kit arrive tomorrow, but I just couldn't wait. The pool took a turn for the worse overnight and really started turning green today. My kids were swimming when I got home from work and they said the walls were slippery as well. So, I added a little over 4 gallons of 6% bleach (3 Walmart Great Value 1.42 gallon jugs) this evening. I'm not sure if it was too little or too much considering I don't know how accurate my last test results were. But, I am fairly sure I was at zero chlorine so I figured every day I wait it's just going to get worse.

 

[CUTiger78]

Well, 4.26 gallons of 6% bleach should have raised the FC level in your 9K gal pool to nearly 30ppm. That's pretty close to the shock level for a cyanuric acid level of 99.

The Pool Calculator at http://www.poolcalculator.com/ is your friend, but it looks like you may have already figured that out.

Good luck!

 

[jimrockford]

My test kit came in today and I was a little surprised by the results:

FC: 1
CC: .5
TC: 1.5
pH: 8.2
T/A: 140
CH: 240
CYA: 40
Temp: 88

The pool calculator is telling me to add 56oz of 6% bleach, 27oz of calcium chloride, and 21oz of 31.45% - 20° Baumé muriatic acid. Does that sound right? I'm a little confused how adding 4.26 gallons of bleach brought FC up to 1, yet adding 56 ounces more will bring it to 4.

-or- should I add 2 1/2 more jugs of bleach to bring FC up to 24 for the recommended mustard algae shock value?

I ran the CYA test twice since the pool store came up with 99.

The pool isn't as green today, but I definitely have some algae developing around the steps and edges of the pool. I'm going to brush that today. I've also been running the filter since adding the bleach yesterday evening.

 

[Optica]

First things first, before you continue to shock, get your ph down to 7.2-7.4 range by adding acid. Pool calculator says 21oz if you are using 31% strength MA. This will bring your TA down a little too since it is also high like your ph. You want to correct ph now since your ph results will not be accurate once you add shock levels of chlorine to the pool. Also, dont worry about CH right now..its close enough. You can adjust that if needed once you are done shocking.

Once that is good, then add the chlorine, I show 261oz of 6% bleach for your pool size to get from 1ppm to 15ppm FC (for CYA of 40) which is your stay above this FC shock target for normal algae. You might want to go a few higher so it never drops below 15 and check/add chlorine as needed to stay above 15 but I do not believe you have mustard algae so I wouldn't increase shock to mustard levels yet.

 

[jimrockford]

Well, I just returned from Walmart. The 10% chlorine in the pool section was cheaper than bleach so I bought that instead. I also couldn't find muriatic acid so I bought sodium bisulfate. I guess the pool calculator refers to that as dry acid, correct? I hope so because I already added 17oz. I also added 1.2 gallons of the chlorine and brushed the pool.

The pool also seems to be clearing up or at least was before I brushed it. It's not sparkling yet, but I think it will be there soon.

Thank you for all your help. It must get really old providing the same advice over and over again to guys like me who haven't a clue...

 

[Optica]

Yep..Sodium Bisulfate = dry acid.

Once your PH is good, start your shock process. Remember it is a process that needs to be followed exactly or you will not completely kill the algae and will have wasted time and chemicals. Read up on pool school/shocking your pool section and then go blast that algae!

Btw, I am a Rockford Files fan.

Good luck. Keep us up to date with test results and progress. We love to hear the success stories!

 

[jimrockford]

New numbers:

FC: 10.5
CC: 0
TC: 10.5
pH: 7.8
T/A: 140
CH: 240
CYA: 40
Temp: 87

The sparkle is back! pH still looks a little high and FC didn't quite make it to shock level. I'm going to add more dry acid and then bring the FC up to 15. How long do I wait until I do an overnight FC drop test?

Here are some new photos:

 

[Optica]

Based on how good your pool looks and your current 0 CC number, I would do the OCLT tonight.

You need to pass 3 criteria to be considered done shocking:
1 - your pool looks clear.
2 - you have less than 0.5 CC.
3 - you loose no more than 1 FC overnight.

You pass the first two. go right to number 3!!

 

[faby3003]

I wouldn't worry about adjusting your pH right now because the results may be reading high due to your high FC level. Wait until you are done shocking, and then adjust pH.