Pool lights tripping GFI

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H

hsmyers

0
Jul 10, 2009
32
Yorba Linda, CA
When I turn on my pool lights, after about 15 minutes a ground fault plug next to my Jandy Aqualink panel trips.

I believe the wiring goes: Breaker ---> GFI outlet -----> Pool light relay ----> pool lights (2)
...........................................................|
............................................................---> Spa light relay ----> spa light (1)

(I had to put the dots in to make the drawing look right because spaces get stripped out)

I can turn on just the spa light and it stays on forever. If I turn on the pool lights, the GFI outlet trips after 15-20 minutes.

Since it was an easy and cheap test to try, I replaced the GFI outlet. This had no effect.

Looks like one of my pool lights is bad, but why does it take 15 minutes for the GFI to trip?

I'm not an electrician, but I'm pretty handy with electrical repairs. Is a pool light replacement something I can handle?
 
Because one the pool fixtures has a little water in it, most likely. The water heats up, creates steam and a short. Find the fixture with condensation inside and that will be the likely culprit. Disconnect it's power at the deck box to confirm.

Scott
 
You should have a junction box where the cords from the underwater lights come up to above the water level.
I would disconnect one at a time and see which one is the culprit.
When you find out which one you need to remove, be sure to tie a strong string or wire to your old cord, to be able to pull your new cord back thru the conduit. The wire/conduit could be 50-100 feet long.
It would be best to have a second person to help pull and feed the wire. If it is a long run, get some wire lube.
Also be sure to check the bonding wire in the light niche and be careful not to accidentally pull it out.

Best of luck,
John
 
I disconnected the pool lights one at a time to determine which light was the problem. When I took the light apart, there was in fact a couple of tablespoons of water in the fixture. I let the fixture dry out for a day, replaced the gasket, and reinstalled it.

Believe it or not I still have exactly the same problem. After 15-20 minutes the GFI trips (BTW, before I knew what the real problem was, I replaced the GFI, so that's not the problem).

The fixture is 7 years old, but looks brand new. It's an American Products 400w light.

Could this be a weird bulb problem?
 
It might pay to go open any electrical boxes and look at the connections. If you have oxidation and/or loose wire nuts, you'll get resistance, then things heat up, causing more resistance, and then something trips. And it usually takes a few minutes for the heat to build up, which tallies with your description of the problem. When it cools off, the problem goes away.
 
Hi Richard,

I got to look at the connections when I was determining which light was at fault. They looked fine. Plus the fact I disconnected and reconnected the connections, and I still get the same 15-20 minute delay before the GFI trips, makes me think they're OK.

Could this be a problem with the bulb, where the resistance goes down after a certain amount of time? I've never encountered anything like that, but the fixture looks brand new, the connections are good, the GFI has been replaced, so what else does that leave?
 
hsmyers said:
Hi Richard,

I got to look at the connections when I was determining which light was at fault. They looked fine. Plus the fact I disconnected and reconnected the connections, and I still get the same 15-20 minute delay before the GFI trips, makes me think they're OK.

Could this be a problem with the bulb, where the resistance goes down after a certain amount of time? I've never encountered anything like that, but the fixture looks brand new, the connections are good, the GFI has been replaced, so what else does that leave?
Click to expand...
There are more connections to check! There will be the one where the pigtail emerges from the pool. Then maybe another by a switch or the relay, and another at the plug, and at the breaker itself. Wire nuts are really only meant for solid wire, but they get used on stranded wire a lot.

Besides that, I'm out of ideas.
 
I'm out of ideas too. The connections I checked were the pigtail connections. With only pool light #1 connected, no problem. With only pool light #2 connected, GFI trips after 15 minutes. I don't believe this can be the connection at the relay or the breaker or the GFI because those connections are all for both lights. It either has to be the fixture or the light bulb. Just because it's a lot cheaper, I think I'll try replacing the bulb, even though I don't think this could be the problem. Thanks for taking the time to help me with this.
 

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Sounds like something is heating up, expanding, and opening up a conductor to water. It seems that you know which line it is on. Don't rule out the possibility of a crack or split in the insulation on the wire in the conduit, especially where is is under water.
I don't expect a GFCI trip for an ordinary high-resistance connection. Breaker, maybe, but not a ground fault.
 
I'm not sure from your schematic what to think. It appears that you have a separate breaker for the lights and then this goes into a GFCI outlet, and then one or both pool light fixtures are connected to the GFCI outlet via separate relays (I'm assuming these relays are controlled by your automation system. So, is this correct? Both light circuits are wired into the GFCI outlet via standard 3-pronged plugs? Are both pool and spa bulbs at 400W? What is the total load being drawn through the GFCI outlet and what is the rating of it and its breaker? Since this appears to happen only when both lights are connected, it would seem to be an over current issue. Would it be possible to wire it up with two independent GFCI outlets, one dedicated to each light circuit?
 
I finally got back to this problem. I have determined that the water is getting into the light from the back (where the cord goes into the fixture) rather than from the front.

I'd like to try to seal this opening with caulk before I give up and buy a new light. Has anybody had any luck fixing this kind of problem?
 
Success! I found a product called 3M 5200 Marine Adhesive Sealant ($8 at HD). I sealed all around where the cord goes into the back of the fixture, let it cure for 24 hours, and reinstalled the light. It's been on for a couple of hours now with no GFI trip.
 
When that caulk fails, you can't rely on the GFCI. Its neither fast nor reliable enough. Water leaks in the back side of a fixture indicate the fixture should be swapped or disconnected. I maintain no exceptions to this. The risks are too high.

I never implied you removed it.

Changing a gasket is part of a bulb change. The two go hand in hand, even if it's only a week old, in my book.

Am I being overly cautious? I don't think so. Will others disagree? Likely but I won't hear the 4 words I hear enough from my wife, "I told you so."

Scott
 
Scott,

You're a pool professional and know a lot more than I do. I'm just a pool owner. I'm trying to fix my pool light problem without paying $450 to have my pool light replaced (my pool professional quoted me $410 to $500 depending on the labor).

I fixed the problem by sealing the leak with 3M 5200 Marine sealant. This is the sealant of choice for boat owners for through-hull applications. If this sealant can stand up to the stress of a boat hull on water, I really feel that it will last the life of the light fixture. That's why I picked it.

Your point was "when that caulk fails" I can't rely on the GFI to trip. You're right, things fail. Grommets crack over time, cords crack over time, front seals crack over time. Lights don't last forever. Eventually, water will leak into the light, and cause a problem.

Since you say I shouldn't count on the GFI or circuit breaker to catch these problems, does that mean I should automatically replace all of my lights every so many years? My pool light failed after 5 years. I have 3 pool lights. Should I be spending $1200-$1500 every 5 years to replace my lights? How about the circuit breakers and GFIs? Shouldn't they be replaced to?

Seriously, if my fix isn't safe, I'd like to hear about it. I'll give up and pay to have the light replaced.
 

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