Aqua Logic PS-8 Pool and Spa Lights stopped working

[tfreejp]

I have a Aqua Logic PS-8 controller. There are 2 pool lights which are controlled through one button on the controller. The spa light is controlled through another button. The LEDs comes on when you press the buttons for the lights. I can hear the relay / switch click when the I press the button at the controller. All lights were working fine. Now none work.
I did turn off all power to the panel, hoping it might reset the panel and clear the problem. No luck.
Any ideas on the problem would be appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[Titanium]

tfreejp,

Disclaimer: If you are not comfortable and knowledgeable about working around 240 Volts AC, please do not attempt the following. Instead hire professionals. 120 Volts kills more people than any other voltage, so 240 Volts is more than enough to kill you.

Using a voltmeter or multimeter, I would check for the presence of 120 Volts on the load side of the GFI circuit breaker, located in the Aqua Logic panel, that is feeding the lights via the Aqua Logic relay. If you don't have voltage here, then the problem is either in this GFI breaker, or even upstream of that.

If you do have voltage at the GFI breaker, then check for voltage at the Aqua Logic relay that you here clicking. You should have voltage always on the line side of the relay and no voltage on the load side of the relay when the relay is off. When the relay is energized, this is when voltage should appear on the load side of the relay.

Let us know what you find out.

Titanium

 

[dschlic1]

The Aqua Logic has a power distribution panel located in the lower part of the unit. There should be several circuit breakers or switches. Turn each one of them to the off position and then back to the on position. One or more of them might be tripped.

 

[tfreejp]

dschlic1,

Thank you for your reply. I actually flipped the breakers located in the control panel 'off' and then 'on' before powering down the whole PS-8 from the main breaker. Unfortunately it did not resolve the problem.

Again, thanks for the help.
tfreejp

 

[mas985]

On my Aqualogic, the lights are wired through a GFI outlet on the side of the box. Sometimes that will trip and turn the lights off as well as the outlet.

Is your GFI on a breaker or in an outlet like mine? Either way, have you tripped and reset it to make sure that it has not failed. Failure rates on GFIs tend to be quite high.

 

[tfreejp]

On my Aqualogic, the lights are wired through a GFI outlet on the side of the box. Sometimes that will trip and turn the lights off as well as the outlet.

Is your GFI on a breaker or in an outlet like mine? Either way, have you tripped and reset it to make sure that it has not failed. Failure rates on GFIs tend to be quite high.

*****

It appears the lights are wired to the PS-8 control panel directly and not through an external GFI. None of the breakers in the control panel are actual GFI breakers. I'm going to remove the cover from the panel and determine how the lights are connected to the panel and then go from there. Thanks.

 

[Titanium]

tfreejp,

It appears the lights are wired to the PS-8 control panel directly and not through an external GFI. None of the breakers in the control panel are actual GFI breakers.

That's odd. By National Electric Code (NEC), pool lights have to be fed from a GFI source (receptacle or breaker). How old is your pool?

When you open your AquaLogic interior cover, you should see the pool lights wired per the lower-right diagram on page 14 (pdf pg 17) labeled "Wiring GFCB for 120 VAC Pool Equipment". http://www.haywardnet.com/products/Manu ... ual200.pdf

Do you know whether your pool lights are 120 VAC or 12 VAC?

Also, it would be great if you listed your pool specifics in your "signature" line. Here is a link on what kind of information should go in your signature - http://www.troublefreepool.com/viewtopic.php?t=52

Good luck. Let us know what happens. If you don't let us know what happens, we'll be thinking that something "shocking" might have happened to you.

Titanium

 

[tfreejp]

Titanium,

Thanks for the link to the manual. It appears to be a longer and newer document than the one I had. I had already found the same picture that you pointed out in page 14 of the doc. Sounds like I'm going down the right path.

Page 15 has a diagram with labels on the left hand side marked N, L2, L1. Excuse my lack of knowledge, but could you tell me what they mean. Is N neutral?

As far as the GFI and NEC code, the pool was not finished by the builder who started it, and as it turns out the sub-contractor who finished the wiring and control panel wasn't exactly on the "A" team. If it's wired incorrectly, I'm not surprised. I've run into other items that I had to complete or fix on my own. Bad news is I shouldn't have had to do it; good news is I learned a lot.

I don't yet know about the voltage for the lights. I'll get the pool spec info published soon. And... I have great respect for the power of electricity.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Titanium]

tfreejp,

Page 15 has a diagram with labels on the left hand side marked N, L2, L1. Excuse my lack of knowledge, but could you tell me what they mean. Is N neutral?

You are correct that N is neutral. G stands for Ground. L1 and L2 are for the two hot legs of the 240 Volt incoming power. Since you have doubts about the electrical sub-contractor, make sure that Neutral and Ground are NOT tied together inside the AquaLogic panel anywhere. By NEC Code, the ONE and ONLY place that Neutral and Ground are tied together is back at your main panel near where the utility meter is located.

The reason that I asked about the voltage of the lights is if the lights are 12 Volts, then there is a 120 Volt-to-12 Volt transformer hiding somewhere.

Good luck in your elecrical troubleshooting. Let us know if we can help further.

Titanium

 

[tfreejp]

Titanium,

I found that the pool and spa lights are 120V AC.

There is a GFI outlet mounted in the side of the control panel cabinet, with a weatherproof outdoor cover. The circuit is wired from a 20amp (non-gfi) breaker to the line side of the GFI outlet, then from the load side of the GFI outlet to the relay for the lights, and then AUXn. The spa lights are wired to AUXn.

I determined that pressing the 'lights' button or the 'AUXn' tripped the GFI outlet.

I replaced the GFI outlet, and I was able to make the spa lights work, however pressing the 'lights' button immediately tripped the GFI outlet.

I used a multi-meter and the relays seemed to work fine with proper voltage. The neutral and ground for the incoming power look to be wired correctly.

Thanks again for your assistance.

 

[mas985]

That is the same way mine is wired. It sounds as though you have a ground falt in the main light somewhere, probably a seal or even the wire.

 

[tfreejp]

mas985,

Thank you for your input. Looks like I've got more work to do.

 

[Titanium]

tfreejp,

mas985 is correct that you have a ground fault either in the wire or at the light itself.

Here is one way to pinpoint where your problem is:

Step 1: Turn off the breaker in the AquaLogic panel that feeds the light. Find the aboveground junction box for the light. Open the junction box and take the wirenut off and pull apart the black wires. Do the same for the red wires and green wires. Turn the breaker on. Reset the GFI receptacle. Does the GFI receptacle trip? If YES, then there is a ground fault in the cable somewhere between the GFI receptacle and the light junction box. This will not be good news. If NO, then go to Step 2.

Step 2. There is a ground fault on somewhere between the light junction box and the light, most probably in the light. The light fixture could be bad and you might have to replace the entire light fixture. But there is another, cheaper possibility .Sometimes the light fixture gasket leaks and lets water inside of the water-tight fixture, and this could be causing your GFI tripping problem. Reconnect the wires that you previously disconnected in the junction box (be sure breaker is still off). Remove the light fixture from its wall niche and uncoil the cable and place the light fixture on the pool deck. Is there water inside the fixture? If so, open the fixture, drain the water and dry the interior of the fixture and replace the gasket (use only new gaskets) and lamp (if burned out). Turn the breaker back on and reset the GFI receptacle and see if the light works without tripping the GFI. ONLY LEAVE THE LIGHT ON WHEN IT IS OUT OF WATER FOR LESS THAN 30 SECONDS - IT WILL GET VERY HOT VERY QUICKLY. If the light works and doesn't trip the GFI receptacle, place the light underwater and check for air bubbles leaking out of the fixture. If you see air bubbles, then the gasket is leaking and you need to do this part over again. If the light didn't work and tripped the GFI receptacle, then the entire light fixture wil need to be replaced.

I'm not very good at writing this stuff up, so if I wasn't very clear on part of it, please keep asking questions.

Titanium

 

[tfreejp]

Progess slowed... winter has arrived in north Texas.

Any thoughts on why the orignial GFI outlet would trip when I press either the light or spa button, and now after replacing the gfi outlet the spa light is OK but the pool lights trip the GF outlet?

I actually have two boxes where the wires for the lighting are joined. The furthest away pool light I believe is wired to an elecrtical box (see picture with white box cover only) which then runs back to the actual junction box (with the black top in the picture). The actual junction box is very the PS-8 control box.

It is my understanding that the two pool lights and the spa light run back to the actual junction box, with the spa light and the nearest pool light coming in through the copper conduit to the junction box, and the furthest pool light coming back to the junction box through the PVC. I'm going to start the dianostic steps that were suggested at the actual junction box.

Thank you again for your help.
tfreejp

 

[Titanium]

tfreejp,

Any thoughts on why the orignial GFI outlet would trip when I press either the light or spa button, and now after replacing the gfi outlet the spa light is OK but the pool lights trip the GF outlet?

One possible explanation is that you had two separate problems at the same time. The first problem, a bad GFI receptacle, tripped when any load was turned on. Once the defective GFI receptacle was replaced, the second problem of a ground fault in the pool light circuit manifested itself.

The furthest away pool light I believe is wired to an elecrtical box (see picture with white box cover only) which then runs back to the actual junction box (with the black top in the picture). The actual junction box is very the PS-8 control box.

I'm not seeing any pictures?

Titanium

 

[mas985]

A leaky bulb can cause a short between any of the leads causing the GFI to trip.

Also, check the junction box, it may have water in it which could cause a short.

One option, only if you feel comfortable doing it, is to bypass the GFI. If the breaker trips, then you know for sure that the hot lead is shorted. If it doesn't trip then neutral and ground are probably shorted.

 

[tfreejp]

Attached are the pictures for my previous post.

 

[Titanium]

freejp,

Let me see if I have this correct. In your first picture, going from left to right, we have:

1. Below the white box - goes to the Far Pool Light via the white box shown in the second picture.

2. Below the black box - goes to the Spa Light.

3. Below the black box - goes to the Near Pool Light.

(Items 2 and 3 above might be reversed).

If I have the above items correct, then I would think that the place to first check is not in the black box, but in the white box of your first picture. In this white box, we should have one black 120 Volt wire from the AquaLogic for the Spa Light and we should have one black 120 Volt wire from the AquaLogic for the Pool Lights (I am ignoring the white neutrals and green grounds for now). I would expect the one black wire for the Pool Lights to be connected via wirenuts to two other black wires - one of which goes down into the PVC conduit to the Far Pool Light and the other which goes up into the black box and down the copper conduit to the Near Pool Light. The black wire fom the AquaLogic for the Spa Light should either go directly up to the black box, or perhaps be connected by wirenut to only one other black wire, wit this other black wire going up to the black box.

If the above is not correct, then I am all messed up, and you should probably take pictures of the interior of the white and black box from the first picture and post them here at TFP.

If the above is correct, then you should be able to take off the wirenut connecting the three black wires together (being absolutely certain that the power is disconnected before doing so). With all three wires hanging free in the air (or, probably safer, temporarily placing a wirenut over each of the bare ends), turn back on the power and see if the GFI receptacle stays energized without tripping (which is what we would expect).

Now, after turning the power back off, connect the incoming black wire from the AquaLogic Pool Lights to only ONE of the two black wires going to the Pool Lights. Turn the power back on, and see what happens. Now turn off the power, and connect the incoming black wire from the AquaLogic to the OTHER Pool Light black wire, and turn the power back on. We would expect that the GFI receptacle would only trip while connected to one of the pool lights while not tripping while connected to the other pool light. This will tell you which pool light is being the problem child.

Hopefully I have not made any errors while writing the above. If this doesn't make sense, please ask. It is very possible that I made a mistake or skipped a necessary step.

Let us know what happens.

Titanium

 

[tfreejp]

Titanium,

Thanks again for the assistance.

Through the suggested testing I'm confident that the problem is with the 'near' pool light.

I was able to determine which conduit held the wires for each light, as well as which wires from the white covered box attached to the relays and to the junction box.

My next step is to pull the light apart to look at the fixture and bulb. I'll post my results when I'm finished, or hit another problem.

tfreejp

 

[tfreejp]

Thanks to all that helped.

I pulled the light, which was full of water, replaced the bulb and gasket, and re-installed it.

All is working fine now.
tfreejp