How to raise PH withouth Raising ALK

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Redman

Redman

0
Jun 30, 2011
24
I am new to this forum, (actually my first post) so please bear with me if I do not know all of the standard rules yet. I have been using EZ Pool. (I know, not good according to this forum) I am considering the BBB method now.

I have a 15,300 gal,
16' x 32' Vinyl In Ground Pool (No SWG)
Sand Filter (don't know the flow rate)
1-1/2HP Superflo Pump
Automatic Chlorinator
Polaris Automatic Cleaner

After several days of rain my pool got a little out of control. I had green algea and very cloudy water. I have had the water tested at a Pool Store with their recommendations. The ALK, PH, Chlorine and CH were off.

The Pool Store Read Out is a follows:
TC - 0.0
FC - 0.0
PH - 6.4 - add 2lbs. of PH Plus (Goal 7.2 - 7.8)
TA - 40 - add 13lbs 8oz. Alkalinity Plus (Goal 80 - 120)
CH - 75 - add 26lbs. 4oz. Calcium Up (Goal 200 - 400)
Stablizer - 0 - add 6lbs. 4oz. Conditioner (Goal 30 - 100)
Algea - Green - add 24oz. Algea Control
Algea Shock 0.0 - add 2lbs. ShockWave or use 3lbs. Super ShockWave

I have the TA pretty much in check now at 100, but need to raise the PH without raising the ALK any more. How can I acheive this?

Their recommendations were to:
balance the pool first by raising the PH and ALK.
Then use Calcium Up
Then Stabilizer
Then Shock
Then add Chlorine
Then add Algea Control

I would like recommendations from those on here using the BBB method on steps to be taken.

Thanks in advance and looking forward to learning the BBB process and telling the Pool Store GOOD BYE.
 
You want to raise the PH to at least 7.2 right away, even if that means raising the TA more than you want to. Borax is the best way to raise PH when you don't want to raise the TA too much. It would have been better if you raised the PH to 7.2 first, and then raised the TA.

You have a vinyl liner pool, so there is no need to raise CH at all. Likewise there is no need to algaecide, which is pretty much ineffective against an active algae bloom.

After you have the PH and TA sorted out, it is best to start raising CYA, targeting a level of 30 to start with, right around the same time you start shocking the pool. Shock the pool according to the directions in Pool School.

By the by shocking is a process involving raising the FC level to a specific level and holding it there until you achieve your goals, not a product that you add and are done with. Various products sold as "shock" are simply different forms of chlorine.

It would be nice if you could put your basic pool specs in your signature.
 
JasonLion,

First and foremost THANKS.

I know now that I should have raised the PH first, Live and learn. I will start with the PH ASAP. Borax is the 20 Mule Team box, correct? I have some but will get more as needed.

When I start raising the CYA, do I add the CYA first, then shock the pool, do at the same time or does it matter what steps?

Yes I have read the fact that "SHOCK" is a VERB, not a NOUN. You "shock" the pool water, not add "shock". On this forum, what is the chemical referred to when shocking the pool? ie: I am going to shock the pool by adding ______ .

I will add my pool info to my sig.

Thanks again
 
Redman said:
JasonLion,

First and foremost THANKS.

I know now that I should have raised the PH first, Live and learn. I will start with the PH ASAP. Borax is the 20 Mule Team box, correct? I have some but will get more as needed.
Yes, and there is a pic of the newer box in the visual encyclopedia in Pool School.

When I start raising the CYA, do I add the CYA first, then shock the pool, do at the same time or does it matter what steps?
You can do both at the same time. First add CYA (enough to reach 30) using the sock method. Then, since your CYA is presently zero, your shock level is 10. So, add enough liquid chlorine/bleach to reach 10FC. You can use the PoolCalculator.com to figure doses. If you need help or want confirmation on dose amount, post back in this thread.

Yes I have read the fact that "SHOCK" is a VERB, not a NOUN. You "shock" the pool water, not add "shock". On this forum, what is the chemical referred to when shocking the pool? ie: I am going to shock the pool by adding ______ .
Well, we suggest you use liquid chlorine or bleach. No side effects with those.

I will add my pool info to my sig.
Welcome to the forum :wave:

Thanks again
Click to expand...
 
Butterfly said:
btw, just to confirm, get the pH and TA right before you start adding CYA or shocking the pool :goodjob:
Click to expand...

Got it.

I am going to be working on the PH and TA tomorrow. I have the jets pointed up to create small bubbles right now and will let the pump and jets run this way overnight. I will check the PH and TA in the morning again. As needed, I will add Borax to raise the PH while checking the TA also. I am kinda new at raising the PH and TA at the same time. As JasonLion stated, I should have raised the PH first and then dealt with the TA, but hey, I'm learning. I will get the PH to the correct level, then again deal with the TA until all is well. After that I wil begin working on the CYA and chlorine (I have both on hand).

I have read that the only way to raise the PH without raising the TA is areation or muratic acid, is this correct?
Also, is the PH level more important than the TA? if so, can you educate me as to why that is?
 
Aeration is the only way to raise PH without raising TA. Muriatic acid lowers both PH and TA. Keep in mind that aeration is a relatively slow process. When the PH is low enough to damage the pool you don't want to sit around waiting for aeration to get the PH to where you need it.

In some sense PH is more important than TA but they are closely linked together. If the PH is too low you can damage the pool and if it is too high it can cause calcium scaling which is difficult/expensive to remove. If TA is out of range you will have trouble keeping the PH in range, leading to the problems already mentioned.
 
JasonLion said:
Aeration is the only way to raise PH without raising TA. Muriatic acid lowers both PH and TA. Keep in mind that aeration is a relatively slow process. When the PH is low enough to damage the pool you don't want to sit around waiting for aeration to get the PH to where you need it.

In some sense PH is more important than TA but they are closely linked together. If the PH is too low you can damage the pool and if it is too high it can cause calcium scaling which is difficult/expensive to remove. If TA is out of range you will have trouble keeping the PH in range, leading to the problems already mentioned.
Click to expand...

OK.........I will let the jets aerate the pool overnight and then begin adding borax tomorrow morning until I get it balanced, while testing TA as I go. I understand a low PH level can cause damage. Boy, never new there was so much to balancing the PH and TA together. Always learning.

Thx
 
Shouldn't the OP be more focused on getting pH right and then immeidayely adding CYA and shocking before worrying about TA? Seems like getting the TA locked in will take some time and meanwhile they have an algae problem...
 

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carlscan26 said:
Shouldn't the OP be more focused on getting pH right and then immeidayely adding CYA and shocking before worrying about TA? Seems like getting the TA locked in will take some time and meanwhile they have an algae problem...
Click to expand...
That would be good if his TA was high, but his TA is too low, and it needs to be adjusted along with the pH first.
 
carlscan26 said:
Shouldn't the OP be more focused on getting pH right and then immeidayely adding CYA and shocking before worrying about TA? Seems like getting the TA locked in will take some time and meanwhile they have an algae problem...
Click to expand...

Yes, Yes

This is where the post started. As JasonLion pointed out in the very first reply, I should have started with the PH first then the TA. Since I did the TA first, I am no focused on raising the PH FIRST. Then dealing with the TA, next CYA, then chlorine.

Thanks
 
Butterfly said:
carlscan26 said:
Shouldn't the OP be more focused on getting pH right and then immeidayely adding CYA and shocking before worrying about TA? Seems like getting the TA locked in will take some time and meanwhile they have an algae problem...
Click to expand...
That would be good if his TA was high, but his TA is too low, and it needs to be adjusted along with the pH first.
Click to expand...

It was low at the start but then they got it to 100. And they now need to raise the pH which will further raise the TA unless they aerate which Jason recommended against because of how long it will take.

I think you just supported my point since the TA is now in their goal range and not 40.

If it was me at this point I'd dial in the pH and get started on cya and shocking and deal with the high TA once the algae is cleared up. The ph will drift up faster so you'll use more MA until the TA is balanced but with the pH fixed you can get started on the algae which to me is a higher priority than TA.
 
OK guys, I've got the ph right, the TA is close, started adding CYA and will check in a few days, also shocked the pool.

This morning the pool looks clean, no algea, but the water is a very pretty Turquoise, but cloudy and not clear.

What should I do next to get the water sparkling clear? Or do I need to just wait and let the pump run and do it's thing?
 
Shocking:
1. Measure the FC level

2. Add enough chlorine to bring FC up to shock level (or a little higher)

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 as frequently as practical, but not more than once per hour, and not less than twice a day, until:
A. CC is 0.5 or lower;
B. An overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less;
C. And the water is clear.

4. Brush the entire pool once a day

5. Backwash or clean the filter as needed
Click to expand...

OK..I have a few more questions:

1. I am in the process of adding CYA and will not know the CYA level for a few days so, How do I determine the shock level?

2. Should I continue using liquid bleach or use a pool shock treatment?

3. How do I check CC level. I currently have the PH and ALK in check now.

I'm still learning and may continue to ask basic questions, but I am eager to learn as much as possible.

Thanks
 
Liquid chlorine (bleach) is all you need to shock your pool, but be aware, you may need lots of it during the shock process. You will need much less for maintenance.

I would say at this point, you need to get yourself a good test kit, it is the single-most important item for taking control of your pool. Most people here have the TF-100 test kit, it is available for purchase here on this site. Taylor also has a good test kit available, but I am not sure if it can be purchased locally or online. The reason for this amped up test kit is that while you are shocking, and after, the BBB method requires chlorine at greater levels than most of the store bought tests can measure as it is based on chlorinating your pool as it relates to your CYA levels.
 
Redman said:
...........
1. I am in the process of adding CYA and will not know the CYA level for a few days so, How do I determine the shock level?
Use your current CYA level for shocking. 24 hours after CYA is dissolved, assume it is there and increase your shock level accordingly.

2. Should I continue using liquid bleach or use a pool shock treatment?
Best to use liquid chlorine/bleach.

3. How do I check CC level. I currently have the PH and ALK in check now.
You need an FAS/DPD kit. It is included in the recommended kits & also sold separately. See Test Kit Comparison in Pool School.

I'm still learning and may continue to ask basic questions, but I am eager to learn as much as possible.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 

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