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Thread: New Pool Contract Line Items

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    New Pool Contract Line Items

    Here is a list of line items for your contract between your Pool Builder and yourself. Although some people will say good luck in getting the PB to agree, but hey it’s worth the try.

    1. Deliverable dates, and tie into payments around deliverable if possible. Try to make you PB meet certain dates of deliverables. Whole dug, plumbing, pool construction, concrete, pool equipment, water fill up, etc.
    2. Water allowance in payment. In my case one of the PVC pipes broke because the PB’s son who helps on the job was too lazy to run to home depot and buy bigger PVC pipes, so one was too short, burst and emptied the pool below the return eye balls. He used my garden hose to fill up. Well that costs me money from the city! Originally he initially filled the pool with a water truck. And now there is a small crack on the step (Fiber Glass pool) and he will empty below the crack to fix it. Before he covers the pool.
    3. Dirt. Specify exactly what to do with the dirt, and how much will be taken away. You might want to keep some for backfilling holes, and landscaping, etc. To buy dirt later, will cost you, regardless of how much there is still a cost.
    4. Backfilling tire marks from the Bob Cats etc. Make sure they will level and grade your property when they are all complete.
    5. Damage to property while work is being conducted. My PB also did my brick work. In doing so he broke my existing cement patio and broke 3 zones of sprinkler pipes. Early Saturday AM, my basement filled with 20 minutes worth of water from 3 zone from the basement window well near the patio! PB is stupid, they break the sprinkler pipes, it does not occur to them to turn off the sprinklers or tell you to do so. If you are like me, you come home at 10 PM from work, the wife has no clue what is going on during the day with construction, etc. So I don’t realize the pipes are broken until the next day.
    6. Tree removal. Make sure if they remove a tree, and they are removing altogether from your property. Not leave pieces on the property for you to take care of on your own.
    7. Cobblestone in driveway. With their heavy equipment riding up and down my driveway, they destroyed the cobblestone. Make sure they will cover the damage or repair it. Also be aware of the drive way damage. If they are installing your pool in the heat, the heavy equipment and loading and unloading things like bricks will make dents in the pavement.



    Items with hidden additional cost:
    1. Sprinkler lines and re-zoning. Be warned if you have sprinklers installed on your property and you are installing a new pool. The PB will destroy some of these sprinkler zones. To correct the problem and fix, will be additional cost to you outside the cost of your pool. For me essentially had to redo all the zones in my back yard, 4 zones total. For over $2000. 8 years ago it cost me $1500 for 6 zones to be installed!
    2. Electrical work. Your pool will require some heavy duty electrical work. A 150 amp electrical panel is the bare minimum if you are not running central AC, dryer, dish washer, pool equipment all the time, etc. 200 amp is recommended, and it will cost you to upgrade the electrical panel in your home. Also the PB will most likely will give you a electrical allowance. For example if you decide you want your equipment away from your house, the further the electrical wire needs to be run, the more money it will cost. They excuse is that the cost of copper has gone up, etc…..BS!
    3. Fencing. Ensure where they get access to your yard to install your pool, that you have adequate fencing in place, and if they remove your fencing they don’t damage it and can replace the sections to the original shape, formation, etc.
    4. Upgraded equipment. Get your PB to give you things like 2 LED lights in your pool, handrails, etc. for all the same cost. Get them to give you a price for the basics. Then tell them you want to upgrade to a SWG, Heater, LED Lights, Handrails, auto vacuum, etc., for all the same original price before you sign.
    IG 24,000 vinyl pool

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Cool, I just responded to another post you made saying to do just this (start a thread on this)

    Not to be the 'bad guy' here, but there are times that the PB HAS TO ignore your pool for a day or 2. You mentioned having your sprinkler system ripped up by them installing the pool - what if it were the phone line (run where it shouldn't have been) or the septic waste line? - that must needs be placed before someone having their pool 'fired up', so if I can't 'fire up' a pool, because I'm busy repairing a septic line, the day delay is not a big issue - the pool I was supposed to get going today won't suffer from not being done today, but the other customer needs () to be able to flush the toilets and take a shower. I'm NOT saying that something like this should delay the pool work on your pool more than 2 days, but - if it happened to you, you'd appreciate the fastest fixing of your problem.

    I agree with most all you've said in other posts but want to give the 'other side' as to why PBs can't always deliver on a specific date. FWIW - WE can easily install 2 liner pools a week (from grassy backyard to usable pool) and the only thing that can prevent that is the weather.

    I LOVE the fact that you started this before you could have possibly seen my post on the other thread -- I predict a great future for you here
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    SeanB's Avatar
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    Great list. The main thing, as I've said myself. Is that if there are any items you want done or have to be done, that are not in the original contract, make sure they are added in.
    TFP Founder

    My Pool: 13K gal IG gunite with 7' spa, Pentair Cartridge Filter, Intellichlor IC40 SWG, Polaris 280 Cleaner, TF-100 Test Kit w/ salt test.

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    coolpackard,

    This is a great thread that you have started. I really like your tying the specific deliverables to specific progress payments, and to specific dates.

    Unfortunately, copper really has gone up a lot of the last several years, as has the price of steel. I don't think many pools use steel conduit anymore, but the rebar steel has certainly skyrocketed over the last couple of years. The great building boom in China has caused all kinds of shortages in basic materials (like copper and steel) for several years.

    I think the cost in labor, however, has gone up even faster than materials. For the electricians, for example, running the conduit will certainly cost many times in labor than what it will cost in materials (not counting big ticket items such as control systems, etc.). Same thing with the plumbers - the plumbers labor will cost 2-4 times what it will cost in PVC piping and fittings (again ignoring the big ticket items such as pumps, filters, etc.)

    Keep up the great work! I am really looking forward to submittals to this thread.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    Re: New Pool Contract Line Items

    Quote Originally Posted by coolpackard
    If you are like me, you come home at 10 PM from work, the wife has no clue what is going on during the day with construction, etc.
    Just a friendly reminder to all readers that there are SOME of us wives out there who DO have a clue as to what is going on during pool construction, some of us maybe even more so than our DHs.

    Otherwise a very good post bringing up many issues that those considering a pool might not think of.
    Sandy

    15,600 gallon, screened 15 x 30 sport pool with 6 x 8 baja shelf, IG plaster (Diamondbrite??), Hayward cartridge filter, 1-HP Hayward pump, Hayward/EUS Mark VI heat pump, Polaris 280, AquaRite SWCG

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    The pool contract should contain a clause stating:

    The pool shall, at a minimum, meet the requirements of the latest edition of ANSI/NSPI-5 American National Standard for Residential Inground Swimming Pools.

    http://iafh2o.org/ANSIIAF5.asp

    ANSI/NSPI-5 2003 American National Standard for Residential Inground Swimming Pools

    This standard applies to permanently installed residential inground swimming pools intended for noncommercial use as a swimming pool by not more than three owner families and their guests and exceeding 24 inches (61 cm) in water depth and having a volume over 3,250 gallons (12,303 L). It covers specifications for new construction and rehabilitation of residential inground swimming pools and includes design, equipment, operation and installation.

    This standard permits variations in equipment, materials, and design, including special features such as but not limited to ledges beach entries, waterfalls, fountains, bridges, planters, seats, benches, swim outs, inpool tables and bar stools, walls over 12 inches (30.5 cm), scuba pools, spas, lap pools, swim spas, spillways, slides, coves, beams, etc. to accommodate special needs consideration and advances in technology. The variations shall consider safety for the intended use and the circulation of the swimming pool water. All work shall be performed in accordance with the the latest edition of the Workmanship Standard.

    Contents
    1 Scope
    2 General design criteria
    3 Plans and permits
    4 Structural design
    5 Pool dimensions and tolerances
    6 Entry and exit
    7 Decks
    8 Materials of construction and finishes
    9 Circulation systems components and related equipment
    10 Water Supply
    11 Waste Water Disposal
    12 Chemical feeders and ozone generators
    13 Electrical Requirements
    14 Instructions for the circulation system, pressure filters and separation tanks
    15 Safety features

    Cost $49 at American Contractors Exam Services
    http://www.examprep.org/BookPreviewPage ... 97090.html

    Cost $59.95 at Construction Book Express
    http://www.constructionbook.com/nspi-5- ... KNC-Google
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    The pool contract should contain a clause stating:

    Pool Builder shall provide a performance bond (completion bond) in the amount of [insert contract amount here].


    Reason: A performance bond (completion bond) typically costs 1% to 2% of the pool contract. Consider a performance bond cheap insurance in the event your pool builder goes out of business duirng your pool build. If the "reputable pool company" is financially worthless, they will not be able to get the insurance for the bond...and then you'll know.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    The pool owner should request that the pool builder provide costs for various upgrades, even if you don't think you need them now, at the time of the original contract signing. The pool builder's prices for these upgrades should be more reasonable stated upfront (or at least you won't be surprised) as compared to after the construction begins and you are "captive" to the pool builders possibly inflated upgrade prices.

    Possible upgrades - even if you don't think you need or want them now - that you should have prices for at time of contract signing:

    1. additional pool lights (I don't recall anyone ever complaining of their pool being too bright, but I know of many people who are disappointed at how dark their pool is with only one pool light)
    2. automation
    3. saltwater chlorine generator
    4. larger filter (you can't really have too large of a filter. A larger filter aids in reducing the backpressure that the filter pump has to work against, plus a larger filter requires fewer cleanings per year.)
    5. a two-speed pump or a variable speed pump
    6. additional decking square footage
    7. upgrades to standard plaster such as DiamondBrite (quartz dust instead of plaster's marble dust) or PebbleTec (exposed aggregate - there are other brands)
    8. upsized and efficient plumbing (2 inch plumbing should probably be the minimum, and perhaps even 2 1/2/ inch plumbing should be considered. Also standard 90 degree elbows should be avoided in favor of wide radius sweeps. All of this will reduce the backopressure that the filter pump has to work against and will yield energy savings for decades into the future).
    9. additional skimmers (the standard single skimmer is often not enough in odd shaped pools or in areas with a lot of wind. A single skimmer is not going to clean a pool when the wind pushes all of the debris to the opposite end of the pool.)
    10. plumbing and electrical tie-ins for future upgrades such as automation or SWG or whatever. Often the cost is minimal for the electricians or plumbers to layout their system to make a future addition easier. They just need to know what you have in mind.
    11. ???

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Pool Contract for California

    Below are links for a contract and a contract specification for swimming pools in California.


    Form 203S - 6 page Swimming Pool Contract for California
    http://www.buildersbook.com/Merchant2/pdfs/203S.pdf


    Form 203SC - 2 page Swimming Pool Construction Contract Specifications for California (to be used with Form 203S)
    http://www.buildersbook.com/Merchant2/pdfs/203SC.pdf


    These contracts appear to be written in such a way as to favor the pool builder over the pool owner. I would use these forms with great care and to not be afraid to delete or modify any sections which you are not comfortable with. Even better might be to write a contract from scratch, pool builder screeching of "it's just a standard contract that everybody uses" notwithstanding.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Before You Dive Into Swimming Pool Construction... is a March 2003 publication from the California Contractors State License Board (CSLB). This publication provides information on hiring and dealing with swimming pool contractors.

    http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/guides ... uction.pdf

    There are several good sections, but I thought the following section was particularly useful.

    Understanding Mechanic's Liens

    California law provides that anyone who furnishes labor or materials to your home can record a “Claim of Lien” or “Mechanics’ Lien” against your home if he or she is not paid. This puts your home at risk. Even if you have paid your swimming pool contractor in accordance with the written contract, if the contractor fails to pay any other person who performed work or supplied materials in connection with your pool, you still run the risk of having a mechanics’ lien filed against your home. This could result in you paying a bill twice to protect your home against foreclosure.

    PROTECTING YOURSELF

    You can protect yourself in the following ways:

    Lien releases. Specify in the written contract that your swimming pool contractor must obtain lien releases from each of the subcontractors and materials suppliers. A lien release is a document which, when signed by a subcontractor, laborer or material supplier after being paid for work or materials, waives any future right to enforce a mechanics’ lien against your property.

    A payment bond. In your written contract, require that your swimming pool contractor obtain a payment bond.
    A payment bond assures the owner that no liens for labor and material will be filed against the property.

    Joint payments. Make payments to your contractor in the form of a joint check to your contractor and the person or company providing labor or materials.

    Joint control. State in your written contract that you will use a joint control company to disburse payments. A joint control company is a licensed escrow company that specializes in handling funds for construction jobs. Instead of giving the money to your contractor, you give it to the joint control company, which then makes payments to your contractor, subcontractors, and suppliers.
    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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