3 PB Quotes (Southwest FL) - What would you do with these pools and quotes?

[Jeffc2112]

Hi, we're getting ready to move from Houston, TX to Estero FL (SWFL near Naples/Ft Myers) and plan to have a new pool built after we close on the home. This is the first draft from our first PB, they are a higher end ($$) builder, but we're hoping that pays off in the long run. We do have 2 more PB quotes coming, however. We were hoping to stay around $60k, so we have some cutting to do on this quote... Not sure if the PB will budge, any thoughts?

It's our first build, so I'm looking for advice on layout, places to save cost, equipment, and options - thanks in advance! (my comments, questions below in Blue & Italics)

PB #1 Detailed Quote (plan to get 2 more):

POOL
12’8” X 30’ 378 SQ FT GEOMETRIC POOL
8”/10” 4000 PSI CONCRETE SHELL WITH LIFE TIME WARRANTY
3’ X 5’ DEPTH
+6”, +12”, +18” RAISED 10” BEAMS W/ 2’ SHEER DESCENTS (3) (may cut this down to 1 water feature to save $)
SUN SHELF W/ PENTAIR LED BUBBLER AND UMBRELLA SLEEVE (TRANSFORMER INCLUDED)
THREE STEPS IN SHALLOW END
SWIM OUT
SURFACE SKIMMER
NON BLOCKING CHANNEL MAIN DRAIN
OVERFLOW LINE
3 RETURNS
2 LED GLOBRITE COLOR CHANGING POOL LIGHTS
STONESCAPES PEBBLE INTERIOR FINISH (STANDARD COLORS) LIFE TIME WARRANTY
6” DECORATIVE WATER LINE TILE
‘CLASSIC’ TRAVERTINE OR BRICK PAVER COPING
PENTAIR INTELLIFLO VARIABLE SPEED PUMP – 3HP
2ND PENTAIR VS PUMP – SUPERFLO 1.5 HP – TO RUN WATER FEATURES
PENTAIR CARTRIDGE FILTER
PENTAIR IC-40 SALT GENERATOR

SPA
6’ ID +18” RAISED SPA WITH 6 THERAPY JETS
EXTENDED TILE SPILLWAY
‘CLASSIC’ TRAVERTINE OR BRICK PAVER COPING
AIR BLOWER – 1HP
PENTAIR INTELLICENTER I5 AUTOMATION SYSTEM WITH INTELLICENTER APP (PHONE/COMPUTER CONTROL)
PENTAIR LED GLOBRITE COLOR CHANGING LIGHT
PENTAIR ULTRATEMP 120Q HEAT PUMP (127K BTU)

DECK
35’4” X 50’ 1025 SQ FT ‘CLASSIC’ TRAVERTINE OR BRICK PAVER DECK
INSTALL ‘CLASSIC’ TRAVERTINE OR BRICK PAVERS ON 180 SQ FT EXISTING LANAI
DECO DRAIN
THREE DOOR PADS
SCREEN FOOTERS
MANSARD SCREEN ENCLOSURE WITH 7” SUPER GUTTER, 2 DOWN SPOUTS, THREE SCREEN DOORS AND STAINLESS SCREWS ON FLOOR OF THE SCREEN ENCLOSURE (NO CHAIR RAIL)
ELECTRICAL HOOK UP
BATTERY ALARMS PER CODE
POOL MAINTENANCE FOR 1 MONTH FROM START UP ALONG WITH COMPLETE ORIENTATION AND POOL SCHOOL
MAINTENANCE KIT INCLUDING VACUUM HEAD, VACUUM HOSE, 18” BRUSH, TELESCOPING UTILITY POLE, SKIMMER NET AND CHEMICAL TEST KIT.

TOTAL COST: $ 87,450.00

OPTIONS:
PCC 2000 IN FLOOR CLEANING SYSTEM $ 4,400.00 (Not sure what this is, and is it worth it?)
20/20 (NO-SEE-UM) SCREEN UPGRADE $ 1,300.00 (Screen Encl)
36’ PICTURE WINDOW $ 1,200.00 (Screen Encl)
102’ LN FT OF ALUMINUM FENCE WITH 6’ DOUBLE GATE (26’ X 50’ X 26’) $ 5,500.00 (Yard Fence, likely to be done by pure fence builder)
‘HIDDEN’ DECO DRAIN AND SKIMMER $ 1,450.00 (Not sure what this is, and is it worth it?)
AUTO FILL $ 700.00 (Pretty sure I want this, not having it in the past)



STATE LICENSED FULLY INSURED AND BONDED

NOT INCLUDED IN THIS PROPOSAL
ACCESS /TREE REMOVAL
SOD AND SPRINKLER REPLACEMENT
EXCESSIVE ROCK, WATER OR FOREIGN MATERIAL
CUSTOMER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR REPAINTING/STUCCO AREA WHERE EXISTING LANAI IS REMOVED
CUSTOMER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR RESIZING HURRICANE SHUTTERS AND REATTACHING HARDWARE
CUSTOMER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE TO CONCRETE DRIVEWAYS OR SIDEWALKS DUE TO CONSTRUCTION ACCESS

 

[jimmythegreek]

You have alot more than the pool going on me that's not bad considering the amount of work. You dont need the in floor. You dont need the hidden covers. The fence quote is high hes subbing it out anyway and tacking on. Not much you can trim to get to 60k the travertine is pricey and add a spa and enclosure to any pool and the price goes up alot. See what other PBs come in at. I would also make shallow end 3.5 minimum water depth you have a sun shelf for shallow play

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Do you have any kids? I ask because that's kinda small for a family (and friends) to all enjoy together, IMO. Can you make it a bit wider/longer??

If you're set on having a "birdcage", do you also need the fence?

Maddie

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jeff,

The IntelliCenter cannot control the SuperFlo VS pump.. because it does not have an RS-485 port.. It would make a lot more sense to go with two IntelliFlo pumps.. Just make sure that neither one of them is an SVRS version pump..

If your old pool had a spa, and you enjoyed it, then it makes perfect sense to get another one with your new pool.. However, if you have never used a gunite spa before, I suggest that you "try one before your buy one." My guess is that 50% of the users love them, but 50% hate them, or at least almost never use them.. Make sure you know which 50% you are in.. $20K is a lot of money to spend on something you might not use..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[kimkats]

Love your design!! The shelf with the steps looks great!

Now lets talk about a couple of things:
-while that staggered wall looks neat it could be a cleaning nightmare as dirt and stuff could get caught in the corners. If you put a straight wall along the back you will also gain more pool to enjoy.

-No matter what you end up doing with the back wall I would have them put in a "finger ledge" right above the water line tile. This will allow someone to catch their breath and rest if needed. What they can do is push one row of the stone out just enough for fingers to hold on it it.

-depth-Hold a tape measure up to your self and the other adults in the house. Where does 3' hit you and where does 5' hit you? 3' is too shallow to do a full crawl stroke without scraping your knuckles. 5'-I am 5'5" and would not like 5' depth as I could not stand but it would be too shallow to do a cannon ball into without hitting my bum.

What do you think you will use the pool for? Floating with a cold one in your hand? Playing around? Swimming?

Saving money-only one waterfall, no bubbler (more of a party trick than anything), plain white lights (most people end up only using one color after a while)

-NO to the infloor cleaner-you can get a robot cleaner that will work much better for a longer time.

-HIDDEN’ DECO DRAIN AND SKIMMER $ 1,450.00-lets find out what this is before I say anything about it.

This should get us off to a good start! Let me know what you are thinking after you read this!

Kim

 

[jorge18]

-No matter what you end up doing with the back wall I would have them put in a "finger ledge" right above the water line tile. This will allow someone to catch their breath and rest if needed. What they can do is push one row of the stone out just enough for fingers to hold on it it.

Kim is correct here. You're going to need to place handholds anywhere there is more than 4' of water. I got dinged on this when I submitted my pool plans (Miami Dade).

 

[YippeeSkippy]

You're going to need to place handholds anywhere there is more than 4' of water. I got dinged on this when I submitted my pool plans (Miami Dade).

?‍That must be a city specific rule as I've never heard of that before. As a kid we always just grabbed the edge of the coping. Its not a bad idea..... I just don't believe its all that common?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Maddie,

The coping works where there is coping.. They are talking about the water feature wall where you would have to have 6' arms to reach the top of the wall...

Jim R.

 

[jorge18]

It's an ANSI/NSPI rule/regulation which I assume every county uses.

1-HANDHOLDS SHALL BE PROVIDED WHERE THE WATER DEPTH EXCEEDS 4 FEET FBC R4501.6.1, ANSI/NSPI 5, 15.1 HANDHOLDS SHALL BE LOCATED WITHIN 12" OF THE WATERLINE - FBC R4101.6.1 ANSI/NSPI 5, 15.1

That's the rejection that I got from mine.

As Jim stated, the coping would serve as a handhold, but in this design, the coping would be too high to reach.

 

[bmoreswim]

I like most of what I see subject to the comments already made. For the hidden drain and skimmer, don't get what they are offering - price is outrageous.

Instead use these for the skimmer(s):

Pour-A-Lid

And these for the channel drain:

Channel Pebble Top Drain Covers — Color Match Pool Fittings

I am not an expert on this, but use of a blower on a spa is not needed if designed properly. See this post from an actual TFP expert...

Spa jets, what's the deal, what is a 'blower' anyways?

 

[Jeffc2112]

Thanks everyone, we appreciate the insights! Great advice and thinking points... With everything going on, we've been a bit distracted, and we also haven't received the other quotes yet.

Will reply back with some of your recommended changes after getting a response from PB1 and after hear from the others.

Thanks again, Jeff

 

[Jeffc2112]

Hi TFP team, we have 2 new quotes and have decided not to consider PB #1 Quote, especially given the economic environment right now. PB#1 was, admittedly, a higher end/higher priced builder. I think Numbers 2 & 3 are more reasonable, and while I am cautious of getting what I pay for, we need to work within our budget... We do have good recommendations on #2 and #3.

Any guidance on "Gotcha's", equipment, layout or options?

Thanks in advance, Jeff

PB#2 This construction quotation shall include the following items: 300 Sq ft. Pool, 3’ to 5’ Depth, Shuttle for dirt / Gravel, Haul Excess Fill Estero Permitting Gunite or shotcrete pool shell 7” Beam for brick coping install(Standard Colors) 3 Steps at shallow end of pool 6” Row of waterline tile (Tile Allowance is $6.00 per sq. ft./ Includes Std. Ceramic tile Install) 2” In-wall plumbing system, 2 Main drains with safety air break 4 Directional return inlets Independent pool cleaner line Pentair EZ Touch 4 Pool /Spa Controller Includes inside panel and Spa Side remote Pentair Intelliflo 3 HP variable speed circulation pump Pentair Clean and Clear 150 sq.ft. cartridge filter Pentair Globrite LED Color pool light with transformer Rainbow 320 in-line chlorinator Florida Stucco Pearl exposed aggregate interior finish 30 Day pool service after interior finish Homeowner tutorial and Artesian Pool Construction operators’ manual Maintenance equipment kit (pole, vac head, skim net, brush, and test kit) Electrical Hook Up Spa Equipment to Include: Gunite or shotcrete spa shell +18” 6” Row of waterline tile & tile outside of spa (allowance of $ 6.00 per sq.ft.) Granite Spillway 6 Waterway Jets 2 Main drains with safety air break Glo Brite Color LED Spa Light Paver Deck and Lanai with Standard Footer. Standard colors and patterns.. Includes Deco Drain. Remove existing lanai pavers. Screen Enclosure with 2 Doors and Super Gutter. Walls @ 9’6”. Includes Super Gutter and Chair Rail. Pool package total $ 58,948.00 Options: Upgrade Controller to Intellicenter 5 $ 893.00 Includes Screen Logic Mobile Phone Interface & Touch Screen Panel. Intellichlor IC-30 salt system for pool up to 30,000 gallons $ 1,325.00 Pentair Ultratemp 108,000 BTU Heat Pump $ 4,200.00 Raised Wall With 3’ Sheer Descent $ 1,445.00 Includes Tile on Face with Automated Valve. Note: Runs off main circulation pump. Add Intelliflo 2HP Feature Pump for Feature Wall $ 2,089.00 Variable speed pump with additional main drains. Required for multiple features. Screen Enclosure with All Picture Window $ 2,872.00 (White or Bronze) Includes Super Screen on picture windows. Autofill(Owner to provide water source with backflow preventor) $ 630.00 This construction quotation shall not include the following items: Extra gravel for dewatering above the standard (includes one yard per 70 sq.ft. of pool) Import or export of dirt and/or ground rock Ground rock removal that requires hammer attachment Landscape & Irrigation removal and repair. Owner to provide power, water, and clear access to jobsite Retaining Wall, Stucco and Paint (If required), Additional Electric if Panel is Full. Shuttle or Small Machine Limited Access, HOA approval & fees.

PB#3 POOL PACKAGE INSTALLATION TO INCLUDE ALL MATERIALS, LABOR, PERMITS AND ENGINEERING FOR THE FOLLOWING: POOL: PER PRINT, 360 SQUARE FEET SURFACE AREA BULLNOSE BRICK COPING, 6” WATERLINE TILE 2 SHALLOW END STEPS AND DEEP END SWIMOUT BENCH SUNSHELF TOP STEP WITH BUBBLER FOUNTAIN POOL DEPTH 3’ TO 5’ DEEP REINFORCED PNUEMATICALLY APPLIED CONCRETE POOL SHELL 6” THICK POOL EQUIPMENT: JANDY 2.7 HP RATED VARIABLE SPEED ENERGY EFFICIENT PUMP JANDY CS 250 SQ.FT. CARTRIDGE FILTER 4 COLORED LED POOL LIGHTS (1 IN SPA, 1 ON SUNSHELF, 2 IN POOL I AQUALINK AUTOMATION SYSTEM (WIFI READY, I PHONE, TABLET CAPABILITIES) ALL RELATED HARDWARE POOL CLEANING EQUIPMENT KIT 1 SKIMMER, 1 VACUUM LINE, 2 MAIN DRAINS, 1 OVERFLOW LINE, 3 PRESSURE RETURN LINES ALL PLUMBING MINIMUN 2” SPA: 6’ X 6’ SPA IN THE SHALLOW END 4 THERAPY JETS, BUBBLER FOUNTAIN BLOWER LINE 2 TRAVERTINE SPILLWAYS WATERLINE TILE WATER FEATURE: INSTALL 2 PEDASTALS RAISED +12 WITH 24 IN WATER BOWLS POOL DECK: SAND SET BRICK PAVERS ON POOL DECK, LANAI, AND DOOR PADS REMOVE AND HAUL EXISTING LANAI BRICK PAVERS COMPACTED CRUSHED LIMESTONE / BASEROCK SUBDECK DECK DRAIN 12” X 12” REINFORCED CONCRETE FOOTERS 4’ X 8’ CONCRETE EQUIPMENT PAD SCREEN ENCLOSURE: MANSARD ROOF SCREEN ENCLOSURE WITH 10’4” WALLS 2 DOORS SELF CLOSING AND SELF LATCHING 7” STRUCTURAL “SUPER” GUTTER WITH 2 DOWNSPOUTS OTHER CONSIDERATIONS INCLUDED: BABY BARRIER ALARMS INSTALLED AS NEEDED ALL ELECTRICAL WORK, DIRT REMOVAL AND GRADE WORK CUSTOMER SHOW AND TELL “POOL SCHOOL” 30 DAY POOL SERVICE CHOICE OF FLORIDA STUCCO “FLORIDA PEARL” OR “SILVER PEARL” POOL FINISH, POOL WATERLINE TILE, PAVER DECKING, BRICK COPING AND SCREEN ENCLOSURE COLOR AUTOMATION SYSTEM WIFI ONLY COLORED LED LIGHTS OTHER CONSIDERATIONS NOT INCLUDED: CUT AND CAP IRRIGATION LINES PRIOR TO EXCAVATION ANY IRRIGATION REPAIR TREE / SHRUB REMOVAL ANY SOD / LANDSCAPING REPAIR POOL PACKAGE AS STATED ABOVE: $ 55,403.00 PLUS OPTIONS OPTIONAL TO POOL PACKAGE: JANDY AQUA PURE SALT SYSTEM, ELECTRONIC CHLORINE GENERATOR: $1500.00 GULFSTREAM HE-125 TITANIUM HEAT PUMP, 117,000 BTU: $INCLUDED APOLLO PAVER UPGRADE (16X16, 8X16, 8X8): $625.00 HAYWARD NAVIGATOR POOL VACUUM: $450 TAHOE BLUE INTERIOR FINISH UPGRADE: $1400 IN SIDE ONE TOUCH JANDY CONTROL PANEL FOR AUTOMATION: $800 ALL JANDY EQUIPMENT 3 YEARS PARTS AND LABOR WARRANTY GULFSTREAM HEAT PUMP, 2 YEARS LABOR AND 10 YEARS PARTS WARRANTY LIFETIME STRUCTURAL POOL / SPA WARRANTY FLORIDA STUCCO PLASTER 10 YEARS WARRANTY ALL OTHER ITEMS 1 YEAR ACROSS THE BOARD WARRANTY

 

[kimkats]

PB2

3’ to 5’ Depth,

We need to talk about your depths:
3' is too shallow-you cannot do a crawl stroke with out scrapping your knuckles.
5' is a difficult depth in that most females (I am 5'5") can not stand in it and it is too shallow for a cannon ball.
What do you want to do in the pool? I would go to 4' to 6'-good for swimming and cannon balls!

Independent pool cleaner line

What does this mean? What kind of cleaner?

PB3

DEPTH 3’ TO 5’ DEEP

Same as above

POOL CLEANING EQUIPMENT KIT

What is this?

3 PRESSURE RETURN LINES

Not enough. You need at least 4

BUBBLER FOUNTAIN

You don't want this in your spa. It is a very little used party trick. You will NOT want to use it when you are in the spa due to the splashing and noise

Okay I think will gets us started on dialing in your pool!

Kim

 

[ajw22]

PB2 300 sq ft while PB3 360 sq ft? 20% difference in pool size. What size pool do you want? What Kim says about pool depth.

I like PB2 and pefer Pentair equipment but get the IntelliCenter not an Easy Touch 4. The ET4 is the bare minium and not easily upgradeable and an older system that was replaced in 2018 by the IntelliCEnter which is modular, expandable, and software getting updates. If you get the ET4 you will need ScreenLogic for PC, phone or tablet access while that is all standard in the IntelliCenter

PB2 filter is too small at 150 sq ft. PB3 filter is 250 sq ft. The bigger the filter the better. Get a 250 to 420 sq ft filter.

Pentair Globrite lights have a proprietary niche, a high failure rate, and expensive to replace. Get the MicroBrite lights.

PB2 - Delete the Inline Chlorinator and get the IntelliChlor salt system. The PB quotes an IC30 for 30,000 gallons. There is no such product. There is an IC20 or IC40. We recommend you get a SWG 2X you pool volume. You probably want the IC40.

Specify all diverter valves. No ball valves.

Add overflow drain.

You may want the autofill.

If you want to save money eliminate the bubbler and water features. They are cool for the first few months and then rarely used.

Why not Jandy equipment? Jandy has agressively removed their products from the Internet and give no warranty for DIY equipment repairs or installation. Jandy parts are often proprietary, even a filter pressure gauge, and expensive. Understand what you are signing up for if you get Jandy products. Pool builder like them as Jandy is better to them then Pentair and it brings customers back for service.

 

[jorge18]

I'm with you on the depths. I made my pool the same, and it's a perfect size. That obviously depends on what you'll be doing in the pool. If you're going to be swimming of jumping in constantly then it's not great, but the way me and my family/friends use it, we usually just hang out in there and have some drinks/listen to music.

The filters on both of these seem a little too small for the pools. For example, mine is a 18x30 (~16k gallons) and I got a 420 sq ft filter.

Regarding the bubblers, everyone says the same thing that you'll use them for a couple of months and then never again - I don't necessarily agree with them, but I guess we'll see about that.

Best of luck on the build!

 

[carnivalday]

I have to second Kim on the depths. I just build my pool last fall; its a small pool. I went 3 1/2 to 5 1/2, and its perfect. I can't imagine the shallower end being even more shallow. Im not a serious swimmer, just a paddler, but I do like to go back and forth. That extra 6 inches makes a big difference when you're talking 3 feet. I recall reading posts where people wish they had made a pool a little deeper, but I cant remember reading that people wish their pool was shallower.

 

[Jeffc2112]

PB2

We need to talk about your depths:
3' is too shallow-you cannot do a crawl stroke with out scrapping your knuckles.
5' is a difficult depth in that most females (I am 5'5") can not stand in it and it is too shallow for a cannon ball.
What do you want to do in the pool? I would go to 4' to 6'-good for swimming and cannon balls!


What does this mean? What kind of cleaner?

PB3
Same as above
What is this?
Not enough. You need at least 4
You don't want this in your spa. It is a very little used party trick. You will NOT want to use it when you are in the spa due to the splashing and noise

Okay I think will gets us started on dialing in your pool!

Kim

Thanks Kim - let me look at my current pool's depth. I get your point on 3-5', thanks. What is a spa bubbler, is that like a blower? And why is 4 return lines necessary, I'm not sure what they do? Thanks for your help on this! - Jeff

 

[Jeffc2112]

PB2 300 sq ft while PB3 360 sq ft? 20% difference in pool size. What size pool do you want? What Kim says about pool depth.

I like PB2 and pefer Pentair equipment but get the IntelliCenter not an Easy Touch 4. The ET4 is the bare minium and not easily upgradeable and an older system that was replaced in 2018 by the IntelliCEnter which is modular, expandable, and software getting updates. If you get the ET4 you will need ScreenLogic for PC, phone or tablet access while that is all standard in the IntelliCenter

PB2 filter is too small at 150 sq ft. PB3 filter is 250 sq ft. The bigger the filter the better. Get a 250 to 420 sq ft filter.

Pentair Globrite lights have a proprietary niche, a high failure rate, and expensive to replace. Get the MicroBrite lights.

PB2 - Delete the Inline Chlorinator and get the IntelliChlor salt system. The PB quotes an IC30 for 30,000 gallons. There is no such product. There is an IC20 or IC40. We recommend you get a SWG 2X you pool volume. You probably want the IC40.

Specify all diverter valves. No ball valves.

Add overflow drain.

You may want the autofill.

If you want to save money eliminate the bubbler and water features. They are cool for the first few months and then rarely used.

Why not Jandy equipment? Jandy has agressively removed their products from the Internet and give no warranty for DIY equipment repairs or installation. Jandy parts are often proprietary, even a filter pressure gauge, and expensive. Understand what you are signing up for if you get Jandy products. Pool builder like them as Jandy is better to them then Pentair and it brings customers back for service.

Great notes, thanks for the detailed advice! Will ask about Pool size and look at depths, and make the changes you suggest. Do we on TFP suggest Salt water generators? (I need to read up on Salt vs Chlorine, haven't had SWG). What is the overflow drain, just from too much rain, etc? Is that not standard? Thanks for the advice on Jandy, I only know Hayward, so sound like I should go with Pentair, not Jandy. Big Thanks, Jeff

 

[Jeffc2112]

I'm with you on the depths. I made my pool the same, and it's a perfect size. That obviously depends on what you'll be doing in the pool. If you're going to be swimming of jumping in constantly then it's not great, but the way me and my family/friends use it, we usually just hang out in there and have some drinks/listen to music.

The filters on both of these seem a little too small for the pools. For example, mine is a 18x30 (~16k gallons) and I got a 420 sq ft filter.

Regarding the bubblers, everyone says the same thing that you'll use them for a couple of months and then never again - I don't necessarily agree with them, but I guess we'll see about that.

Best of luck on the build!

Thanks Jorge, we'll look into it a bit more, but I think we'll be mainly hanging out in the pool, but depth is definitely something to consider. Thanks for the other guidance! Jeff

 

[Jeffc2112]

I have to second Kim on the depths. I just build my pool last fall; its a small pool. I went 3 1/2 to 5 1/2, and its perfect. I can't imagine the shallower end being even more shallow. Im not a serious swimmer, just a paddler, but I do like to go back and forth. That extra 6 inches makes a big difference when you're talking 3 feet. I recall reading posts where people wish they had made a pool a little deeper, but I cant remember reading that people wish their pool was shallower.

Interesting perspective, thanks for that insight, 6 more inches is a good compromise and shouldn't add too much to the cost... Thanks!