Pool lights electrical connection

[leered]

I need help making the electrical connections for the pool lights. I have an EasyTouch 4 ( with wireless remote) , 2 Intellibrite 5g lights and a few pool fence lights. I am using a GFCI outlet instead of an actual GFCI breaker
I assume that I will use a standard breaker to power the GFCI outlet ( Line side). However, I would think that in order to be able to control the pool lights ( and fence lights) with the remote/control panel they need to be connected to one of the relays. So the Load line goes to a relay. Is this correct?

I'd also like to be able to control the fence lights ( 10 posts 90W(3x30W) each) with the same remote as well. I am thinking of using a dedicated breaker for them (just to separate them from the pool lights). Can I use a standard breaker for these lights or does it have to be GFCI as well?

Equipment: Intelliflo 3050 (4x160), 40k btu Max-E-Therm heater, Hayward SwimClear C4025 filter, IC40.

A diagram or a picture of an actual ET wiring would work best . Maybe there are some out there already.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Lee

 

[JasonLion]

The fence lights should be GFCI as well, either a breaker or a separate outlet as you are proposing for the pool light. The fence lights should be on a separate relay and separate GFCI from the pool light.

 

[bk406]

Hi leered,

You really dont want to do it the way you propose. The pool lights should be on a separate circuit from any other light. Also, i would wire the pool lights into the ET box directly and not use a plug. Use a GFCI breaker. Wire the hot wire from the pool light to the load side of a relay, wire the hot from the breaker to the line side, the neutral to the neutral bus, and the ground to the ground bus. The wires coming from the pool light should be in conduit all the way to the ET box. While you COULD put a plug on the end of the pool light wires, thats not the safest and best way to do this.
You other lights can be tied into a GFI plug. The line side of the plug goes to the load side of the relay, the neutral and ground to the respective busses, and a hot from a breaker in the ET box to the line side of the relay. Then, plug the lights into the GFI plug. Nothing gets tied to the load side of the plug unless you want to run another GFI plug off the same circuit. The lights will be GFI protected and will be controlled by an ET relay.

 

[JasonLion]

Using a GFCI designed to go in an outlet box, but with the pool light wired directly to the GFCI, instead of plugged in, is extremely common and fine by code. There is no need to use GFCI breaker, which is way more expensive. Outlet box GFCI come in versions without the outlets, which is what should be used.

 

[bk406]

Using a GFCI designed to go in an outlet box, but with the pool light wired directly to the GFCI, instead of plugged in, is extremely common and fine by code. There is no need to use GFCI breaker, which is way more expensive. Outlet box GFCI come in versions without the outlets, which is what should be used.

No real electrician that I know would wire it this way, IMO, and if you want a nice, pro looking install, wiring the pool light directly into the ET box with a GFCI breaker is what a pro electrican worth their salt would do.

While your way would work, i'll respectfully disagree and move on

 

[Just-a-PB]

I guess every electrician in this town is not worth their salt.
Most ET, or any other brand controllers have cutouts for a GFCI on the panels. This is for a feed through for the lights, and is great for a service outlet at the equipment.

Your whole lighting setup is less then 10amps which is far less then 80% load, so you can run it through the GFCI outlet with no issue. Truly it would be better to have the lights on separate circuits if you have an issue later on.

 

[bk406]

Most ET, or any other brand controllers have cutouts for a GFCI on the panels. This is for a feed through for the lights, and is great for a service outlet at the equipment.

.

Most around here use the cutout for the convenience outlet, not an outlet to run pool lights, etc.

 

[leered]

The pool lights ( as well as the fence ligths) are at the ET panel ( using conduit). All I need is to power them in a way that will allow me to control them. Not to mention that since I paid for the LED changing color lights it would be nice to be able to actually change colors (remotely).

Where can I find a diagram for the Pentair relays. I am not familiar with them and I need to know which one is LOAD vs LINE side.

Thanks,

Lee

 

[Just-a-PB]

Four screws on each.
First two are one contact
Second two are one contact.
Basically
Line, load, line , load
If you are hooking up a 120v load.
You will only use one set on same contactor.
FYI:
Remember if you are using the load side of the gfci for the hots, to also run the neutrals through as well.

 

[leered]

I would appreciate it if someone could look at attached diagrams and define connections (i.e. P1 connects to R1...)

I included 2 versions: pool & spa light wiring using a GFCI breaker, pool & spa lights using GFCI outlet & standard breaker ( this version will only work for me if GFCI outlet will be energized even when ligths are off).

Thanks in advance!

Lee

 

[bk406]

There's a lot of ways to wire up lights, plugs, etc to an ET box.

What I see you wanting to do is the following:
1) control your spa and pool light with an ET relay.
2) control your fence lights with an ET relay

A question i have that didnt get asked is
1) do you want the pool and spa light on at the same time?
2) do you want the fence lights controlled by a different relay?

I'm going to tell you what I would do keeping in mind there are a few ways to do it. I'm also going to assume you will use 2 relays, one to control the pool and spa lights, and one to control the fence lights. I'd also do way with using the GFI faceless outlet. Why?

1) Because you need a breaker to supply power to everything, plus a GFI plug. So, the price of those 2 together will be as much as a GFCI 20 amp breaker.
2) save your side knock out for a convenience outlet.

Ok. Lets work off diagram #2.

a)B1 from the 20 amp GFCI breaker gets wired to R1 (line1) on the relay.
b) wire nut your black wire from the pool light to the black wire on the spa light (P1and S1) together with a short piece of black wire (its called a pigtail).
c) Wire the pig tail to R2 (load side of the relay).
d) wire P2 and S2 to the neutral bus in the ET box. (I assume those wires are white. Red anotates another hot wire for 240 VAC but I assume you pool lights are 120VAC).
e) Wire P3 and S3 to the ground bus in the ET box.

This will put power to the relay, and allow you to run both lights from the same relay.

Now for the fence lights. Since the power used for all these lights will be handled by a 20 a,p breaker just fine, you can power a second relay usin the same GFCI breaker.
Run another black wire from R1 of your pool light relay to a second relay (wire to R1 there as well). From there, tie in your black wire from the fence lights to R2 of the second relay (load). Wire the white and green from the fence lights to their respective busses.

Now you have both the pool and spa light on a relay and your fence lights on another, all run and protected by one 20 amp GFCI breaker.

 

[JasonLion]

Older versions of the code (2002 I think), which are still current in some places, require a dedicated circuit breaker for underwater lights. Also, a few inspectors interpret 680.23 (F) (2) requirement for a single continuous ground conductor as limiting underwater lights to a dedicated breaker.

 

[bk406]

Older versions of the code (2002 I think), which are still current in some places, require a dedicated circuit breaker for underwater lights. Also, a few inspectors interpret 680.23 (F) (2) requirement for a single continuous ground conductor as limiting underwater lights to a dedicated breaker.

Yea, thats true. Depends on what they want, really. If thats the case here, then the fence lights need there own breaker.
I guess my thought with going with a GFCI breaker is that you need to buy both a breaker and a GFCI plug. So just buy a GFCI breaker and wire it up direct nice and clean. The cost would be the same. If the AHJ required a single breaker for the pool light, then run a second circuit for the fence lights and piggy back a convenience outlet off the second 20 amp breaker. Lots of ways to do it.

 

[leered]

There's a lot of ways to wire up lights, plugs, etc to an ET box.

What I see you wanting to do is the following:
1) control your spa and pool light with an ET relay.
2) control your fence lights with an ET relay

A question i have that didnt get asked is
1) do you want the pool and spa light on at the same time?
2) do you want the fence lights controlled by a different relay?

I'm going to tell you what I would do keeping in mind there are a few ways to do it. I'm also going to assume you will use 2 relays, one to control the pool and spa lights, and one to control the fence lights. I'd also do way with using the GFI faceless outlet. Why?

1) Because you need a breaker to supply power to everything, plus a GFI plug. So, the price of those 2 together will be as much as a GFCI 20 amp breaker.
2) save your side knock out for a convenience outlet.

Ok. Lets work off diagram #2.

a)B1 from the 20 amp GFCI breaker gets wired to R1 (line1) on the relay.
b) wire nut your black wire from the pool light to the black wire on the spa light (P1and S1) together with a short piece of black wire (its called a pigtail).
c) Wire the pig tail to R2 (load side of the relay).
d) wire P2 and S2 to the neutral bus in the ET box. (I assume those wires are white. Red anotates another hot wire for 240 VAC but I assume you pool lights are 120VAC).
e) Wire P3 and S3 to the ground bus in the ET box.

This will put power to the relay, and allow you to run both lights from the same relay.

Now for the fence lights. Since the power used for all these lights will be handled by a 20 a,p breaker just fine, you can power a second relay usin the same GFCI breaker.
Run another black wire from R1 of your pool light relay to a second relay (wire to R1 there as well). From there, tie in your black wire from the fence lights to R2 of the second relay (load). Wire the white and green from the fence lights to their respective busses.

Now you have both the pool and spa light on a relay and your fence lights on another, all run and protected by one 20 amp GFCI breaker.

BK406,

Thanks for the info! That's exactly what I was hoping for. I ended up using one GFCI for the pool and spa lights ( 120V, both will turn on at same time). See attached diagram. Note: I left the breaker OFF for the lights ( couldn't actually test), since I still need to program the ET4 -after I do more reading on it. I only tested the GFCI outlet.

By the way I used a MURRAY MP120AFCP - for some reason last nigth ,at Home Depot ,this seemed to be the right one (arc fault and Ground fault) - and the only one type- but now that I look at the pic....I am not sure. Would you please confirm the breaker is appropriate? See pic attached.

I added a non-GFCI breaker and used it to power the GFCI convenience outlet. I still have room for a standard breaker for the Heater ( 120V Max-E-Therm) and a GFCI for the fence lights ( I already have 1 dual pole breaker for the pool pump and another dual pole breaker for he ET4 & IC40 chlorination cell). After this, I will not have room for any other breakers.

 

[Just-a-PB]

That is an arc fault, you need a ground fault.
back to HD for you.

 

[leered]

That is an arc fault, you need a ground fault.
back to HD for you.

I suspected that! I think the one I looked at was a combination Arc-Ground fault breaker, then I picked up the 20A Arc fault!

Will 15A be good for the pool lights? What about the fence lights- 20A or 15A GFCI?

For some reason HD doesn't carry 20A GFCI ( at least not the type that will work with ET)

Thanks!

Lee

 

[Bama Rambler]

15 amps should be more than enough. That's 1800 watts. I don't think you'll exceed that.

 

[leered]

Thanks all! I installed GFCI breakers for pool/spa lights as well as for landscape ( fence) lights. Most probably I need to re-check the connections ( at a junction box) because I tested the landscape lights and the GFCI tripped. FYI- I only used the white wire (curly) ( connected to neutral bus) and the bronze (non-silver) nut/screw to connect the hot wire -that goes to the lights ET relay). ET in SERVICE mode--> pushed button for corresponding relay...tried a couple of times.

Lee

 

[JasonLion]

On a GFCI breaker you must connect both neutral and hot from the load to the breaker. {{{Updated}}}

 

[Bama Rambler]

The curly wire should be connected to the bus and the hot and neutral should run from the breaker to the lights. A ground should be ran from the breaker panel and ran straight to the lights.