Malfunctioning patio outlet

[Melt In The Sun]

Hi all (especially bk, Bama, and anyone else who is electricity-smart),

I have a patio outlet that hasn't worked since I moved into the house. I also had one GFCI breaker that was left off because it would always trip. Well duh, I figured there was a short somewhere between the panel and the outlet.
While expanding some planter beds in the yard last week, I found a buried splice that was sloppily wrapped, not even in electrical tape, but pipe wrap
Unsurprisingly, it was sopping wet inside when I took it apart. From the panel to that disconnected splice I get 130 volts - perfect! The tripping breaker stays on. At this point I thought I had it figured out. Fix that connection and party on, dude!

After cleaning and drying the wires, I reconnected them and tested voltage at the outlet. The breaker didn't trip, but...26 volts :?

So, I guess I have 2 questions:
- how can I get 26 volts? I assume that means some huge resistance loss in the 40 feet between the splice and the outlet?? Or, could the problem be with the connections, since all I could do was re-twist the wires back together? I can expose probably 25 feet on that side before it goes under decking and pavers.
- what is the correct way to connect two direct-burial wires? Is it even allowed? Something tells me it wasn't done properly before

 

[JohnT]

Resistance alone wouldn't give you a voltage drop without a load on the circuit. What do you get line-neutral, line-ground and neutral-ground?

 

[Melt In The Sun]

I'll post it up this evening.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Chances are that if you found one splice, there may be others. And if the one you found was that bad, any others won't be any better.
A seriously loose connection can give you a very low voltage reading without any load. Also be sure to check the lugs on the breaker and receptacle ends. Some people use the push-in connectors on the receptacles and those are notorious for causing connection problems.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

I do know that the breaker is secure, and I already removed the outlet from the box on the other end, so I was just testing the bare wires. I'll hook it up nice and tight this evening and give it another shot. Thanks guys!

 

[Bama Rambler]

You can do a continuity test on the wires. Unhook the wires at both ends and wirenut one end together. Check the resistance with an ohm meter. It should be low and the same on all three wires. I'd go as far as checking them two at a time instead of hooking all three together.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

OK, here are my sad results:
- No detectable continuity between any of the three wires.
- White/ground = 2.5 V
- Black/ground = 10.1 V
- White/black = 12.6 V

So, looks like I'm out of luck. Until I have a reason to follow the line as far as I can (probably sooner rather than later, now that my darling bride is after me to get it working ), how should I cover up the ends of the wire that is good? Assuming I eventually get the bad side working, how should the two sides be connected; J-box? I might as well just do that part correctly now.

 

[Bama Rambler]

The proper way to fix it is to run all new wire, but you already knew that! :blah:

If you can get the 'good' end out of the ground a foot or so then a junction box will do. If you can't, see first sentence!

 

[Melt In The Sun]

Thanks Bama; yes, I can get it a foot or so out of the ground. Running all new wire will be the eventual solution, but for now i'll just stub it there.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

Update! I gave up on this last year and worked on other stuff. I was doing some digging for drip irrigation, and here's what I found. I guess this is what happens when you cut partially through a line with a shovel (wasn't me!) and leave the power on. Any idea how long this takes?

On the plus side, I did some proper splices and got the outlet working again.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Yep, that's been there a while. Glad you found it and got it fixed.

 

[jblizzle]

Yikes ... glad it was not in a puddle that could be stepped in.

I actually have similar concerns with the way some of the wiring has been done at my house (the joy of an older house I guess). While doing a little irrigation work I have run across a few lines like that buried maybe 6" ... not sure if they are live and what they run to ... :?

 

[JohnT]

Yikes ... glad it was not in a puddle that could be stepped in.

I actually have similar concerns with the way some of the wiring has been done at my house (the joy of an older house I guess). While doing a little irrigation work I have run across a few lines like that buried maybe 6" ... not sure if they are live and what they run to ... :?

Be thankful for GFCIs (if you have them).

 

[jblizzle]

Yikes ... glad it was not in a puddle that could be stepped in.

I actually have similar concerns with the way some of the wiring has been done at my house (the joy of an older house I guess). While doing a little irrigation work I have run across a few lines like that buried maybe 6" ... not sure if they are live and what they run to ... :?

Be thankful for GFCIs (if you have them).

Well, the pool light was not on a GFCI until I added it if that gives any indication ...

 

[Ohm_Boy]

AHA! An opportunity for another of my boring anecdotes.

I've found pretty much the same situation inside a house once, in the electrical box behind a bedroom receptacle. The couple that lived there was complaining about an odd smell in the bedroom whenever they vacuumed.
Turns out that one receptacle screw terminal was loose, and the wire heated up whenever there was a current draw. It burned the insulation off, eventually melting the wire down to about the diameter of a sewing needle, and melting the side of the electrical box. This receptacle was daisy-chained to the rest, so wherever they plugged in the vacuum, it drew 15 amps through this connection.

FWIW, those grey plastic electrical boxes smell like a mix of bad electric motor and dead possum when they burn.

 

[JohnT]

Yikes ... glad it was not in a puddle that could be stepped in.

I actually have similar concerns with the way some of the wiring has been done at my house (the joy of an older house I guess). While doing a little irrigation work I have run across a few lines like that buried maybe 6" ... not sure if they are live and what they run to ... :?

Be thankful for GFCIs (if you have them).

Well, the pool light was not on a GFCI until I added it if that gives any indication ...

I'd invest in a plastic shovel

 

[jblizzle]

I'd invest in a plastic shovel

At least the dirt at this house is soft enough that a plastic one might almost work ... unlike our last house across town that literally required a pick ax before you could shovel.

Actually I think the wires I have found are for some of the landscaping lights ... and I am pretty sure they are on a GFCI (like the irrigation controller that looses its memory anytime the GFCI pops :grrrr: )

 

[Melt In The Sun]

I have run across a few lines like that buried maybe 6" ... not sure if they are live and what they run to ... :?

How bout this? You're supposed to bury these fellas 18" down That is about 3" below ground surface, and notice that the elec is even shallower!

 

[jblizzle]

Is that your yellow gas line?

Apparently it just takes too much work to dig stuff deep down here.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

It's a line to the backyard bbq and firepit hookups. Notice the digging bar-shaped dent right in the middle? It leaks now, and I'm not sure I will be able to (or will want to) get it fixed.