New Pool Plumbing Layout

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Smaller pumps use less electricity to get the same job done, so generally speaking smaller is better. However there are a couple of things that require at least a certain amount of power, so it is possible to get a pump that is too small. For an in-ground pool you generally need at least 1/2 HP full rated or 3/4 HP up rated to be able to prime the pump and vacuum properly. For any reasonably sized residential pool without water features that is all you need. Anything more is a waste of electricity.

Some of the things that may require the use of a larger pump include: waterfalls, in floor cleaning systems, spa jets, very large pools (say over 30,000 gallons), high bather loads (such as in a public pool), solar panels placed well above water level, and fountains.
 
When plumbers connect ABS to PVC, a mechanical fastner of some type is used like a Fernco coupling or similar. Plumbing inspectors in the US will fail a job if they see ABS glued to PVC. That said, Oatey makes a glue that is supposed to glue ABS to PVC. You could probably use it for ABS to PVC on a skimmer and it would work ok.

EDIT: Jason types faster
:mrgreen:
 
No Oatey in Australia.
I have ordered some Weld-On PVC to ABS cement, but its not meant for pressure systems. Anyway, according to the distributor this means a constant pressurised system rather than suction at a skimmer which he reckoned would be ok with this product. Its the only one in Au so it will have to do. Can only get a 2" to 2" rubber coupler which wont fit as the fitting on the skimmer is a bit bigger than 2" to allow for the pipe to be inserted. Anyway the rubber would break down over time, so I just have to hope that the cement will work.
 
Hi pool250 ,
I live just Nth of Sydney good to see another aussie here , this is a great place to sort your pool questions , the bonding question puzzled me as Ive asked a few PB and electrians and they just dont seem to worry , I asked because i bought a VF intelliflo and the instructions said to bond it to the pool bonding wire but the elec said its already earthed .
good luck with your pool
Dave
 
Hi Sticky, yeah I do wonder how some of the 'pros' here build pools..... Using pvc cement to stick pvc to abs, confusing equipotential bonding with earthing and always install a minimum 1.5hp pump in every pool regardless of the size.

You might want to check into that pump again because as far as I understand it, pool pumps etc, need to be equipotentially bonded with the pool.
 
pool250 said:
No Oatey in Australia.
I have ordered some Weld-On PVC to ABS cement, but its not meant for pressure systems. Anyway, according to the distributor this means a constant pressurised system rather than suction at a skimmer which he reckoned would be ok with this product.
Click to expand...
That should work ok.



pool250 said:
Its the only one in Au so it will have to do. Can only get a 2" to 2" rubber coupler which wont fit as the fitting on the skimmer is a bit bigger than 2" to allow for the pipe to be inserted. Anyway the rubber would break down over time, so I just have to hope that the cement will work.
Click to expand...
Just an FYI. The way you handle something like that is to glue a shortpiece of ABS pipe into the skimmer female end so you would have a 2" "stub out" on which to attach the coupling. Also, contrary to what you might think, those kinds of no hub fernco's or metal covered rubber mission clamps will last for decades underground.
 
With some recent posts re questionable pad layout I thought I better find out if
my planned pad meets the TFP standard!
Any suggestions, alterations or things I have missed out like valves etc.
All the pics of pads I see on the site seem to have a forest of valves so I am not sure if I am missing something....

many thanks
 

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Not sure what others recommend but I'd put the swg cell before the heater. Where your top up connection is, I always put a one way valve and a check valve. Have you thought about fitting and auto fill on the pool itself; saves a lot of trouble if you ever let the level fall low and it's one less job to do. I would recommend not using it for the 1st month or so to find out if you have any leaks.
 
I did think about an autofill but my top up water will be from a groundwater 'soak' (providing it dosent have too much iron), as my house system is rainwater tanks ie no mains water so I really have to do this manually depending on the water level in the soak or possibly using water from the tanks, keeping one just for top up and buying in the water if the soak runs dry (which is unlikely).
 

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solarboy, you never want the SWG before the heater. The SWG should be last, just before the water goes back to the pool, as it is in the diagram. The extra chlorine in the water from the SWG can damage the heater. SWGs also produce hydrogen gas, which could accumulate in the heater and cause an explosion.

pool250, your diagram looks good as far as it goes. However, most comments about pad layout are really focused on details we can't see in your diagram. Good pad plumbing is something of an art, and difficult to explain in detail. The goal is to have the minimal number of fittings, good spacing between parts, and "graceful" pipe runs. It generally takes some practice. For a DIY job, I would focus on not using too many fittings and making sure you have several inches of pipe between each pair of fittings, so you can cut things apart and do them over again if you ever have to.

Are you aware that wood fired pool heaters use truly fantastical amounts of wood? A typical pool heater is several times as large as the furnace for a suburban home.
 
Thanks Jason.
Yes there was stuff I couldnt show in the diagram but I thought I would see if the basics were right.
I have looked into pool heating in quite a lot of detail and came to the conclusion that wood fired was the way for me to go as the cost of running
a heat pump in the winter months when you need it most worked out to be v expensive. I have about 50 acres of forest so there is plenty of fallen wood so long as I can be bothered to get the chainsaw out and so long as the heater is big enough so that it means I dont have to keep loading the thing every 5 mins.
Anyway the heater is something I will be doing later on when the pool is finished, I just needed to make sure that I left enough room in the right place for the heat exchanger.

Either the Trojan or the 250H:
http://www.tubulousaustralia.com.au/pro ... oilers.htm
 
also, in Oz, uncontrolled boilers ie solid fuel, cannot be pressurised meaning it has to be on a separate open vented system (header tank).
Therefore the pool water never goes near the actual boiler for the reasons you state re chlorine in contact with v high temperatures and because of risk of explosion due to extreme high temps from being pressurised/uncontrolled. Hence the use of the heat exchanger at the pad. The water that comes to and from the boiler/pad, is in a separate vented system with its own pump.
 
The plan is to heat for a few days every 2 or 3 weeks in mid winter; that might be just about do-able. Plus if I put in a heater
I will have a winter polytunnel over the pool and a blanket to help keep in the heat and reduce evaporation.

From what I understand electric heat pumps really dont work that well/efficiently below 50F and the running cost in mid winter when I would want to use it most, seem to be substantial. I would like to be able to use the pool in mid-winter; not every day or every week. Our mean long-term lowest temp in winter is 43F with an average night time winter temp of around 50F, daytime around 60F. Frosts are rare and light and it never snows.
I will be putting in a 3kw solar pv system but if I use all of the pv output in the winter for the pool (ie during the day), I will miss out on the double payment per kwh for pv export onto the grid. Electricity prices are going to double here by 2015, by all accounts; and it's not cheap now!

A heat pump for occasional use might be an option but the thought of putting one in and then being terrified to use it due to the running cost, is a concern.
The wood is free although the labour in cutting and stoking wont be a delight I am sure!
 
Good quality hardwood will provide 20,000,000 BTU per cord. The wood burners you pointed to burn on the order of 200,000 BTU/hour, or just under 5,000,000 BTU/day, or 1/4 cord per day. I'm not sure what the weather is like where you are. My pool, which is almost twice as larger as yours, takes three or four days of constant heat to get up to temperature from a starting water temperature of 60 degrees in the spring and fall using a heater of about that size. So, assuming your heater is as efficient as mine (unlikely) and that your extra insulation makes up for the colder temperatures (also unlikely), you are still looking at using a cord of wood being burned constantly over four days.

Some people find that kind of thing entertaining, but most aren't interested in putting in that amount of work for a few hours of swimming.
 
Temps edited into previous post.
From what I understand a properly sized wood burning system should heat the pool by about 1F per hour. With a starting temp of say 50F,
it would take 20hrs to get up to 70F and then slow combustion setting should keep the temp up without too much additional stoking.
Although I do have to agree it does seem to be a lot wood/hard work for a few dips in the pool!
 
A heat pump will not work too well (read not at all) below about 50 degrees. In practice, the real useful temp range for them is above 60 degrees ambient. Below that, the BTU out put is lower than the BTU's you are losing from the pool (even with a solar cover). The only way to heat a pool in the winter is with gas.
 
No piped gas here.
With an average winter daytime temp of 60F and night time of 50F, would the heat pump be any use in those conditions
ie would the night time losses with the heater off be greater than the daytime gains with it on, even with a cover?
 

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