Friendswood pool build - almost there......

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friendswoodnewbie

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Oct 11, 2010
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Friendswood, TX (near Houston)
We are in the final stages of selecting a PB and several questions are coming up that I hope the experts on this forum can weigh in on. By the way - I love this forum and have been lurking about for some months now. There is a wealth of knowledge hidden in all the older posts.

So far we know it will be a gunite, free-form pool with a hot tub. It will probably be around 30000 gallons and around 800 sqft surface area

We want to go with a SWG system but the PB recommends a DelOzone system as a secondary sanitizer. From what I read that is not necessary. I assume most SWG owners do not have the ozonator? Correct?

For the filter, the PB recommend the Pentair FNSP 60 but I am leaning towards the Quad 100 - more filter surface and probably only marginally higher upfront cost.

For the cleaner, the PB is recommending the Platinum Pool Cleaner. I seem to get the impression that Polaris gets getter feedback but I would welcome any comparisons.

For lights, we want to go with white Intellibrites - just not sure if the 12V or 120V are better. Any insights?

For plaster I think we are sold on Pebblesheen - just not sure on the color yet. I am sure that will be a longwinded decision..... :lol: :blah:

Another 'unusual' recommendation/suggestion from the PB is to seal the gunite to avoid water seeping through and creating white stains. It is apparently a fairly new technique. Any feedback on that?

Finally, I am very much in doubt about piers. I understand it is very regional and maybe even from street to street. I don't think others pools in the area (Friendswood - West Ranch) have them but I am not sure. It does add around 6 k$ so it is not just a rounding error......

Any feedback/comments will be greatly appreciated. As soon as the design is fixed I will start posting pictures.
 
Re: New build in Friendswood

Welcome to TFP! Looking forward to seeing pics. :goodjob:

You are correct in your statement that the ozonator is not needed. If this were an indoor pool, you could derive some benefit from having one. Outside though, the sun does all of this for free and on a much larger scale.

Going big on the filter is always a better idea.
 
Re: New build in Friendswood

Sealing the gunite is not needed. Wasted money.

Piers may be needed if the soil conditions warrant. You would need a soils engineer's report to determine that. Most virgin soil can support the weight where as locations with fill, high water tables and other certain situations may require piers, over digging, drainage, or other remediations to make the desired location suitable.

Residential pools generally don't need ozone as a secondary. It won't hurt anyone but the wallet.

Scott
 
Re: New build in Friendswood

Hi! We are just right down the road from you...no piers or gunite sealing with our build. I saw a pool build in Seabrook on a canal that did have piers but that's a totally different situation than what we have. I can think of a whole lot of upgrades I could do with 6K instead of piers that may not be necessary. :wink:

We got an ozone system included with our SWG in our pool build package, but don't use it... big waste of money. I turned if off early on. We have the larger Quad DE filter and it's been great. We love the Pebblesheen! Ours is Aqua Blue...very pretty and the water color is a true clear blue with no green tones. Try to see as many actual pools before you decide on your Pebblesheen color...you can't tell on a computer screen what the real color is. Shoot me a PM if you want to come by and see the Aqua Blue in person while you're making a decision.

Oh, and keep reading TFP as you build and afterwards...it's saved my tail and pocketbook more times than I can count...so much so, that I was happy to do the Lifetime Membership thing. HTH!
 
Re: New build in Friendswood

Thank you so much for your advice so far.

I still do not have pictures but a few more questions.... :-D

Our pool will probably end up around 27000 gallons and I am not sure if we should stick with Intellichlor 40 or upgrade to the IC60. Any advice?

My plan is to run the 4x160 at low speed most of the time (20 hours a day?) and then high speed for 1-2 hours. I assume the SWG should not be on all this time or there would be way too much FC even at the lowest output (20%). Is this correctly understood? With the many hours of circulation (to lower energy consumption) maybe it makes more sense to go with the smaller IC40 and just have it on whenever the pump is on? Not sure.......

For the filter, we told the PB we would like to go to the Quad 100.

All the plumbing will be 2" except the main drain which will be 2.5". There will be 5 returns to the pool and 2 returns to the spa. Apparently, the returns to the pool come from a ring around the pool - 2" coming from the pump going to a 2" 'ring' all the way around the pool and then short 2" pipe going into the pool. Is this normal? It seems that the 2" going from the pump to the 'ring' will have a high flow rate? The PB said going to 3" for main drain and 2.5" for all returns is possible but it would add significantly to the plumbing cost without any real energy saving. He may be right. He said the difference per foot was from $3.50 to $6.25.

I really enjoy reading this forum. There is so much valuable information and I must say the tone is one of the best for online forums and an example to follow for others.

I will post pictures as soon as we get them from the PB - it should be the final design this time after 3 or 4 iterations. Who said it was easy to be a pool designer..... :-D
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

We are about to sign the paperwork later this week but I would welcome any last minute comments before we fully commit......

This is an aerial 3D
2010OlsenR1_003.jpg


And another one
2010OlsenR1_002.jpg


2D Drawing
2010Olson7DrawingC1-1.jpg


We wanted a deeper end to be able to jump in. We are a little uncertain if the kids jump in from the backwall anyway...
Maybe we should go a little deeper back there as well.

The pool will be about 820 sqft. It will be Grade 60 rebar (I believe 1/2" in the beam and 3/8" further down). It will be 8" OC w/ 4" alternates in one direction.

We will get the Pentair Quad DE 100 filter, The IC60 salt cell with the EasyTouch 8 remote as well as an indoor control panel.
The pumps will be the Intelliflow 4x160 - I believe one for the pool and one for the sheer descents (they are a little hard to see but there will be two 2' sheer descents on the sides and two 6' sheer descents in the middle. The middle ones will probably be more of a rain wall most of the time unless the pump is on the very max output......
1 bubbler on the tanning shelf (on the main pool pump).

The spa will be with an infinity edge with a glass tile we have not yet picked out - I am sure that will be easy..... :lol: It will have 8 jets and 4 leg jets.

For the coping and decking we have looked at and THOROUGHLY tested a limestone - but a very dense limestone that has the light color we like. We have tried to spill wine, salt, scratching etc and it seems to hold up really well.....

The main drain will be 2½" but everything else 2" (2" returns going back to a 'ring' around the pool with the 5 returns sticking out from that 'ring'.

There will 2 skimmers as you can see from the 2D.

Platinum cleaner on separate pump (I think....)

Pentair Master Temp Heater 400,000 Btu.

Any comments and ideas are welcome. We really look forward to get started...... :)
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

The Platinum will have a booster.

I like 120V lights, less to wire.

I would go 3" on the suction lines. The sheers are likely to need every GPM and the spa may, depending the the jets you choose. Some use quite a bit.

You may want another pump and blower for the ankle jets. Trying to power two sets of air/water loops with one pump gives poor results.

An iS-10 spa side controller is a good idea. You can speed up and slow down the Intelliflows and turn on/off or change color shows lights and water features from in the spa.

Any landscape lights? There are Intellibrite Landscape lights too!

Scott
 

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Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

Scott,

Thank you for your comments.

I will talk to the PB about the lights. I think the price may be the same but I guess 12V sounded more 'safe' to me. When you say less wiring is it just thinner wiring (120V vs 12V)?

I like your idea on the suction lines. I know it is a little more but I would rather spend that up front and make sure we don't feel we could have gotten more flow after the fact.

For the spa, I talked to somebody who said they have a 16(!) jet spa on the same pump (4x160) so I would think that 8+4 is very doable on that pump. Another pump just for 4 ankle jets sounds a bit much? I think we have a blower for the jets.

For the spa side controller, we talked to the PB and he said the remote can do almost the same and it will not be harmed by a little water (just don't submerge it....)

We talked about lights and decided to wait - we don't have any trees yet so hopefully that can be a phase 2 in a year or two. I asked the PB about prewiring for an outlet near the pool but another outlet cannot be within 10 ft (I think it was) of the pool so there is not much difference between that and where the house is.
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

I agree with Scott, upsize the plumbing lines. I personally like to use the same size coming and going, but others see no problem "necking down" the pipe on the return side. 2" however is just too small, and I would use 2 1/2" minimum; 3", again, as Scott said, being better.

I would also get a dedicated jet pump. You could use the circ pump for heating on slower speed (you'll have to have some flow rate for the flow switch on the heater, so the lowest may not work), and then you could ramp that up for the 4 calf jets (I'd run those either as or with the warm water return lines) and use the jet pump for the other 8 jets.

This is a nice project, and saving a couple bucks on one less pump or too small of plumbing seems silly. Having an efficient running pool that you will enjoy for a very long time is at your reach, with just a couple pretty simple, and relatively inexpensive, changes.
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

Bruce,
My main concern using same size plumbing both directions would be having too low pressure drop in the returns (risk of cavitation in the suction?)

We do have a dedicated spa pump (another Intelliflow 4x160 just like the main circulation pump). I think the intent was to heat through the leg returns to minimize heat loss at the surface.

I am not completely sure of the proposed plumbing setup yet but are you saying that a 4x160 is not enough for the 8+4 spa jets? I guess the spa returns will also add a little massage (and a lot of heat when the heater is on). Perhaps the bigger plumbing will give that little extra flow rate in the spa without an additional pump (more than the already dedicated spa pump). Does that make sense?
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

Pools are a flooded suction, so you really shouldn't have too much worry about cavitation. It may be tough on the slow side of the pump speed, but it has been my experience that most folks are not really able to accomplish much on slow speed anyway. Your pool is really quite large (compared to most), and I doubt you'll be on the slowest setting often, if at all.

How far away is your equipment from the pool? Is there any elevation change(s)? How about solar, now or in the future? These will all affect flow at some point.

I've been plumbing all jobs lately with 2 1/2" coming and going. Just plumbed a spa only with about an 80' equipment run this way last week. I'll be using a 3/4 HP single speed circ pump (as well as a 3/4 HP water feature pump and a 2 HP jet pump), and it is all on 2 1/2" pipe. Should run very efficiently and quiet.

I'm just not a fan of trying to create back pressure for the sake of back pressure. Slow water movement, efficiently, makes for a happy pool! I don't want cavitation, but once a line is flooded, and barring anything weird in the plumbing (an air leak, for example), you should be fine. You will always have the option of running the pump at any speed with larger pipe, but if you run smaller lines you may not be as efficient.
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

Bruce, there are no elevation changes (well less than a foot for sure), I don't expect solar.
As for distance I think it is about 30 ft to the edge of the pool from the pump/filter.
Why do you say low flow will not be very often?
I thought it would be possible to run the 4x160 for e.g. 20 hours on low rather than the 8-10 hours on high that the PB suggests as standard.

If the larger piping is also more quiet I am getting more and more convinced.

I will ask for 2.5" all around or possibly 3" main drain and see what the difference will be.

More quiet and less power consumption seems like nice consequences + the more flow in the spa. By the way, did you agree on the spa pump? (just one 4x160 + the air blower?)
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

The VS-3050 that powers the filtering will likely, when in normal circulation mode, send return water to the +2 jets.

When in spa mode, the +2 jets will shut, leaving the 8 to return water. The negative edge will be off in this situation, the water to the jets will be heated, and the VS-3050 that normally filters the pool will be powering the spa. Let's call this the primary pump.

The other VS-3050 will power the water features such as the bubbler and sheers. Let's call this the secondary pump.

It's possible the primary may power the bubbler or sheers, but not when the spa is on.

It's possible the secondary may power the bubbler or sheers, but not when the spa is on.

It's possible the primary may filter, run the bubbler or sheers and the second just the spa.

There are a lot of combinations possible.

Cavitation is caused by starving the pump. The 3" lines will prevent that. I would use a 2.5" and Tee off to feed each sheer and the pool returns.

Scott
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

Yes on the 3" and 2.5" lines are feeders.

The reduced head loss will save you on your power consumption, especially at the time high speed is called for. Running the sheers, bubbler or spa are typically higher flow applications.

Scott
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

I'm going to say the price sounds a bit high on the plumbing. The difference in cost from 2" to 2 1/2" (my cost) is less than a quarter (.25) a foot. I doubt that the jump from 2 1/2 to 3 is much greater. 3" is a little harder to work with, but not much (4" and bigger gets progressively harder), so labor should not be much, if any, more.

The reason I say you probably won't run on slow too much is that it won't run a cleaner or much else. Most people do not go through the programming required to change the speed to run the cleaner for 1-2 hours and then shift back to filtering only. Solar is a whole 'nother can of worms, but it doesn't sound like that will be an option for you.

I do not like any project to have one pump doing multiple duties. I always like a circ pump (obviously!), a jet pump for a spa, and any additional pumps needed foe water features, vanishing edge, etc. To me, asking one pump to do multiple duties just creates the possibility of not being able to run everything you want at any given time (see Scott's notes for some versions of this!).
 
Re: New build in Friendswood now with pics......

Bruce,

I removed the pricing (I did not know if it is inappropriate for this forum) but your feedback is also what I thought after looking at online stores.

As for pumps, my thought was to use one pump for circulation, one for the spa, one for the water features/sheer descents (all three of them the Intelliflow 4x160) and then a smaller (0.75 HP I think) for the cleaner.
I just realized I had left out one pump in my signature...... :oops: .....
 

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