Rheem heat pump 5350 TI-A - any good?

[niceguymr]

Hi, I'm considering the purchase of a heater for my pool & spa. My pool is about 11k gallons and has an attached spa that 'pours' or 'waterfalls' into it. The spa for some ungodly reason has never had a heater (I was not the original builder of this pool).

I'm looking at the Reem Heat Pump model 5350 TI-A for $2300 installed with 5 year warranty. If anyone has any comments or feedback about this it would be greatly apprecicated.

 

[Poolschoolgrad]

niceguymr

Raypak/Rheem heaters/heatpumps have a reputation as very dependable units.

In our area of the country, a heat pump can be cost effective, but this will depend on how you plan to use your heater.

Heatpumps work well in mild climates which have relatively low electricity costs.

If you plan to use your spa year round, then Raypak/Rheem also make natural gas and propane heaters. The heatpumps are not efficient at lower temperatures.

If your goal is to extend the swim/spa season by a couple of months in the Spring and a couple of months in the Fall, then the heatpump is a very good choice.

If you purchase a Heater, invest in a good quality solar blanket.

 

[bk406]

You really dont want a heat pump to heat your spa. Generally, a spa gets heated to around 100 to 104 degrees. A heat pump will not heat it up that high. In addition, it would take a long time to heat even a 600 gallon spa with a heta pump. A heat pump can be a good source of heat and be cost effective depending on your electric rates and how you use the pool. But I would not depend on one to heat a spa.

 

[Brentr]

bk406 I hate to disagree with you because we have had out pool heated to 98 degrees with just the heat pump, and while the pool is small, it worked well with a solar cover in place. We got i deg rise every 28 mins. We do not have a spa because our pool can be a very large spa minus the blowers and all the outlets. I do believe that we could have gotten much higher but the wife did not care for more heat.

 

[bk406]

bk406 I hate to disagree with you because we have had out pool heated to 98 degrees with just the heat pump,

You live in Florida and have a kiddie pool.

(The OP lives in florida too i just saw )

However, IMO a heat pump is a pretty poor choice for a spa. It would take too long to heat it up when he would want to use it. A 400,000 BTU gas heater would heat that spa 25 degrees in less than half an hour. My opinion of course. :wink
I have a heat pump and really have mixed feelings about it. If I had it to do over again, I'd have gotten gas.

 

[Brentr]

bk406, I understand where you are coming from but the OP has a lot warmer temps that Jacksonville FL and all they want to do is heat a 600 gal spa. A heat pump would be sufficient especially if they had the ability to isolate the return from the spa. Just my opinion

 

[bk406]

Depends if he wants to use the spa in the winter. I doubt even in Florida you could get 104 degrees out of a heat pump in January. If i lived in Florida, I know I would like to use a spa in the winter. I also think he said he wanted to heat the pool as well.

 

[Poolschoolgrad]

He lives in SOUTH FLORIDA.

I must disagree with you BK406. My raypak/rheem 133k btu heatpump has seperate controls for spa and pool and can quickly heat and maintain a few hundred gallons of water to 100 degree.
30,000 gals of water in the pool, however, takes longer. :lol:

In mild climates with low electricity costs, the heatpump can be a good choice.
In colder climates, or areas with high electricity costs, the gas heaters are the best choice.

The cost of operation of a heatpump is about 1/6 of the cost compared to propane.
In less than 5 years, you could save more than the cost of the heaterpump when compared to a propane heater.
http://www.poolcenter.com/heaters_raypa ... olstor.htm

Here is an example: My neighbor has a propane heater on his pool. He can heat his pool quickly for a pool party in only 1 day. It takes me 3 days with the heatpump depending on the outside temps. However, he spends more in the first month of operation than I spend on electricity for my heatpump for the 5 months that I run it.

My neighbor can, however, use his propane heater when the outside temps are very cold ... the heatpump would not provide this option.

 

[niceguymr]

Let me jump back in here and clarify my needs.

I'm glad this is generating some discussion because I know abolutely nothing about pool heaters. We are ocasional pool users - maybe once a week or so in the summer months and much more infrequently outside of summer. We have never used our spa since moving into this home because it's not heated and we cant figure out why on earth someone would have built the spa with the pool without having put in a heater. We're just getting around to (possibly) installing a heater b/c our pump just fried and needs replacement immediately and we might score a little better deal if we get a heater installed at the same time. But honestly, we're not committed to it unless we feel we're getting a great deal and I think the deal we're being offered is pretty good ($2300 installed).

With that being said, we don't need our pool heated to 'spa' temperatures - we'd be happy if we could get the pool heated to normal summer temperatures that we achieve when the heater is not in use but we'd definitely like to get the spa heated to above 100 degrees (even if only 101-104). So what I'm seeing here is that a heat pump might not be able to achieve this and that is definitely a significant concern if that's true. I'd like to know for sure before I make a decision.

Thanks for your reponses.

 

[bk406]

He lives in SOUTH FLORIDA.

I must disagree with you BK406. My raypak/rheem 133k btu heatpump has seperate controls for spa and pool and can quickly heat and maintain a few hundred gallons of water to 100 degree.
.

And you LIVE IN GEORGIA.
Ok, maybe you guys can heat to 100 degrees in the summer, but my bet is you cant in the winter. And do you really want to wait a couple hours to heat a spa when you want to use it after work? I wouldn't.

To really analyze this the right way, I need some more info.
1) do you have natural gas available? If so, whats the rate per therm?
2) what is your electricity rate per kw hour?

 

[Poolschoolgrad]

Average daytime temperates in Miami for January is 75 F. A heatpump will function quite efficiently at 75. I use a heatpump in the Spring and Fall when the high temps here are in the mid 70's.

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/ ... /miami.htm

 

[bk406]

I understand all about heat pumps, as I said befoe, i have one. Yers, 75 degress they work fine. But I'll still say they do not heat a spa fast enough to be used with any regularity. Yes, a pool, sure. South florida great. A spa, I wouldnt use one no matter where I lived to heat a spa, too slow for my tastes.

 

[niceguymr]

And you LIVE IN GEORGIA.
Ok, maybe you guys can heat to 100 degrees in the summer, but my bet is you cant in the winter. And do you really want to wait a couple hours to heat a spa when you want to use it after work? I wouldn't.

To really analyze this the right way, I need some more info.
1) do you have natural gas available? If so, whats the rate per therm?
2) what is your electricity rate per kw hour?

I don't have natural gas available so anything that would require natural gas is not even an option. With this in mind, wouldn't the heat pump be the most viable option?

As I stated previously, we don't use our pool too frequently and I don't need to heat the pool to spa temperatures. The main purpose of the heater would be for the spa but again, I'd need it to get to at least 100. Certainly though, I don't want to have to wait all day just to heat the spa either.

 

[bk406]

You dont need NG, propane works great.

1) How many gallons is the spa?
2) do you want to use it in the winter?

 

[Poolschoolgrad]

Under ideal conditions, here is a comparison.

It would take 1 hour and 15 mins for a 133k btu heatpump to heat 600 gal of water from 70 to 100.
It would take 25 min for a 400k btu propane heater to heat that same amount of water.

600 x 8.33 =app 5000 x 30 deg = 150k btu hrs

 

[niceguymr]

Can someone explain to me a little more about the propane heaters? Do I use one of those LP tanks like the kind I have for my outdoor gas grill? If not, how would I get gas to them? What's the cost for propane? I can see how propane would work much faster but at what cost or inconvenience?

 

[bk406]

Under ideal conditions, here is a comparison.

It would take 1 hour and 15 mins for a 133k btu heatpump to heat 600 gal of water from 70 to 100.

Maybe, maybe not. That 133k BTU is under ideal conditions of 80 degree ambient air temp and 80% humidity. Heat pumps are rated based on whats called a COP number. The higher the number, the higher the efficiency. What they dont have is a standard or a set of regs to go by to compare the them to each other or actually give real world BTU outputs. Unlike a gas heater, heat pump BTU outputs can vary greatly depending on outside conditions. So, that 133k BTU might only put out 80,000 or 100,000 depending on the outside temps. I promise you it wont do 133,000 when its 60 degrees out at night. Below 55 degrees or so, they are pretty useless. If it's raining and 65 degrees, useless too.

Now, a heat pump in south florida will heat your 11,000 gallon pool pretty nicely though. Matter of fact, Florida is where they originally were used as pool heaters, i believe. The other thing you have to understand about a heat pump is that they are really designed to MAINTANE water temps, not heat the water 15-20 degrees quickly and on a moments notice. I like mine in months that the highs are in the low to mid 70's and the nights get to 55 or so. Works great to keep the pool at 80-83 degrees, but it runs ~4 hours a day to keep it there. If I dropped the pool to 70, it would take a couple days to get it back to 83 again.

So lets look at real world conditions here. Say your spa was at 75 degrees and its about 70 degrees ambient in January but 55 at night. You come home from work and want to use the spa. You turn the heat pump on. You might get 100,000 BTU out of it. Ok, a 30 degree rise will take 1.5 hours, give or take. A gas heater at 400,000 BTU will take about a half an hour. With the heat pump, you would really need to keep the water hot all the time if you wanted to use the spa at all, IMO. The trade off in cost to run the heat pump continuous as opposed to the gas heat for half an hour isnt much different.
If you just wanted to heat the pool, the heat pump is the way to go in south florida. But, as I said before, its too slow for my taste for a spa. You just need to do some more research and maybe find someone in your area with a heat pump and ask them how they like it for a spa.
In answer to your propane question. No, a gas grill tank is too small! For a 400,000 BTU heater, you need at least 100 gallon tank.

So for cost. I have no idea what your electric rates are or propane is per gallon so I'd just be guessing the cost to run either in your area. Here propane is about $2.50 a gallon. To heat a 600 gallon spa 30 degrees with propane, it would cost me around $5.00 in propane or 2 gallons. For a heat pump in my area, about $3.00 in electricity.

 

[no-mas]

niceguy: find some people nearby that heat their spas with a heatpump and talk to them. Almost certainly, the performance of a heatpump will be fine for your spa in S Florida. In North Florida, I know several people either no longer heating their pools/spas or switching from propane to heatpumps because heating with propane is too expensive. I have propane tankless water heaters for the house, and a 100 gal propane tank... last time the tank was filled, the propane cost me just under $5.00/gal.

 

[bk406]

Wow, $5! When was that? I can get it now in new England for $2.75 this morning, I just checked.

Niceguy, do your research. A heat pump may meet your needs for a spa. I just dont believe that in january, in the evening, even in south florida, you can generate enough BTU from a heat pump to heat a spa 25-30 degrees in a reasonable amount of time. Right now in miami its 61 degrees at 9:07 am. If you tried to heat that spa right now, it might be ready by tonight. I have no doubt a heat pump would work april-october. November through march, not so much. The evening and night time temps are too low to generate suffcient BTU long enough to heat the spa in a reasonable amount of time.


I still stand by my opinion that gas is better for a spa, even in florida, but as you have seen, opinions vary. Good luck.

 

[niceguymr]

Thanks for all the input fellas.

After considering the circumstances a little better (1) I don't have access to natural gas where I live and (2) I don't want to deal with the added inconvenience of propane, I've decided to go with the heat pump, although I'm stepping up to a higher BTU model (Rheem 6350). I realize it's not going to give me rapid heating year round but I'm sure I'll be satisfied with the performance now that I'm going into without unreasonable expectations thanks to everyone's input.

Part of the selling point for me was the cost. I'm getting an entirely new setup including the heat pump, a new pool pump and filter for $3000 installed (tax included) and with full warranty. The only reason I was even looking at heaters is because my pump failed and needed to be replaced asap and my filter was on it's last leg too. So in the end, I'm getting everything new and installed for about the cost of a typical heater alone.