Cloudy Water, high CYA, and high TA

[gglmn]

My pool has become a nightmare! Cloudy water all summer long, can seem to clear it. I think my local pool store just wants to sell me more chemicals! I just installed a Hayward Aqua-Rite chlorine generator in hopes of getting it back on track, but I’ve got a ways to go, it’s still cloudy and the generator can’t keep up with the chlorine demand.

I just read about BBB and realized I've been used Soda Ash Ph UP which has added to my high TA.

Here’s the latest test info:

Temp 86 deg
Ph 7.4,
TDS 2500
CYA 100
Free Chlorine .2
Total Chlorine .4
Total alkalinity 300
Total Hardness 270
Optimizer + 47
Copper 0.1

I also see purple scale on the liner, which I suspect is manganese, how can I test for this?

I have a Talyor test kit and when I test for CYA, I can’t see the black dot with only ¼” of the tube filled, the 100 mark is much higher on the side of the tube.

I had been using stabilized trichlor 3” tablets and dichlor shock. We also have an autocover so the pool was covered most of the time.

I have recently used Pool Magnet Plus to remove any metals before starting up the salt generator.

I’ve called the Hayward tech line to go over the output of the generator and the tech said its working fine, and I should have a chlorine demand test performed.

I have a 4 stage turbine pumping air through drilled pvc pipe to aerate in hopes of bring down the TA.

The filter element is six years old, Sty-Rite 500, and is running at its normal pressure, 10psi. It was just cleaned 3 weeks ago.

 

[duraleigh]

gg,

get your CYA down. That's the biggest issue I see with your test results. It was very helpful of you to describe your CYA test in detail.....your CYA is thru the roof, making your chlorine innefective.

I also suspect you are fighting algae but your CYA is so high I can't see you winning much of that battle 'til you reduce the CYA down below 80 at most.

 

[JasonLion]

I suggest trying to get a more accurate CYA level by diluting the pool water one to one with tap water and testing that and multiplying the result by two. Then you will at least have an idea if the CYA is around 100 or closer to 200. Either way you will need to get it down, but it might be nice to have some idea of by how much.

If you have algae, as I suspect, the SWG won't be able to take care of it on it's own, you will need to suppliment with chlorine from another source. To kill off algae you need lots of chlorine all at once, which no SWG can do well. I suggest using bleach, since it won't add to the CYA problem you already have. This will be much simpler if you get the CYA level down first, but if your CYA level is around 100 and not 200 then you could probably manage it without doing that first.

The stains are probably a mixture of calcium scale and something else, quite possibly manganese. If your PH has been around 8.0 or higher you would be likely to have calcium scaling given your TA and CH levels. Lowering the PH and TA, adding a metal sequesterant, and brushing might get them off or you might need a more aggresive treatment.

 

[mbar]

My suggestion would be to drain and refill your water till you get your cya, and alkalinity down, if it is not too expensive. You can drain it down 1/3, add water, and continue until you get your numbers in line. You will not be able to run your pool easily until you do. You need to be able to get your cya in a range that will allow you to test easily, so you can get enough chlorine to keep your pool clean and clear. You will have to keep your alkalinty and ph down to get rid of the scaling, and you will need to keep enough sequestering agent in the water to control the metals so you don't get any more stain. High ph & alkalinity, along with high chlorine will let any metals in solution fall out onto the surface of the pool. Once you get your water balanced, you will see how easily you can keep it that way. That's why I suggest a partial drain - it will be the simplest way to balance the water. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

 

[gglmn]

I have a Vinyl liner pool, how do I do a partial drain/refill? I worry about the liner shifting.

 

[mbar]

Just take it down below the skimmer, while adding water on the opposite side of the pool with a hose - once it gets below the skimmer, let it fill up again, and then drain again - this way you won't let the water get too low and nothing will happen to the liner. You can actually let it drain about 1/3 and the liner will be ok. You just don't want it to drain too much so the liner doesn't shift and wrinkle.

 

[gglmn]

Did the partial drain/refill, figure I took about 1/3 of the water out. My CYA is still showing 100, T/A 170, but the generator is producing plenty of chlorine and the water is crystal clear. Now that I know to use borax vice soda ash, I will be able to get the T/A lower. I'll continue to vacuum to a drain until the CYA is lowered. Thanks for all the help; you've helped me save my pool, sanity, and a lot of money!

 

[ivyleager]

I have a Vinyl liner pool, how do I do a partial drain/refill? I worry about the liner shifting.

There is the plastic sheet method, too, if your pool size is managable (i'm thinking small round pool). Put a plastic sheet over your water, placing pump below water line if you don't have a main drain. Add new water to top of sheet, while pumping old water out beneath. This method allows for more rapid water changeover. By using skimmers/waste method, you're only really replacing a miniscule amount of water at a time. The plastic sheet method is much quicker.


CaryB

 

[JasonLion]

This method allows for more rapid water changeover. By using skimmers/waste method, you're only really replacing a miniscule amount of water at a time. The plastic sheet method is much quicker.

Up to about 50% water replacement it doesn't matter too much how you do it, you can continuously fill while draining and it will use a little more water but go faster overall. Over 50% water replacement there start being dramatic advantages to using the plastic sheet method.