pH Adjuster & The Liquidator

[Sabot]

I am looking into the benefits (or cons) of using the pH Adjuster which is made by the same company which makes The Liquidator. I received my pH Adjuster information via snail mail. HASA has elected not to publish the instructions on their website. The pH Adjuster has to work with The Liquidator, it can't work alone. The pH Adjuster connects with a "Y" connector which allows the Liquidator to tie directly into the same hole on the suction side.

Anyone have any opinion on if there would be any harm to equipment to having the small amount of acid being introduced on the suction side? I like automation, expressly automation without the need of mechanical devices. This is why the Liquidator and the pH Adjuster seems very appealing to me. Thoughts?

 

[JasonLion]

How safe it is rather depends on how small an amount of which acid is involved.

I don't think most people would need a constant acid feed when using the Liquidator. It might be handy with fresh plaster or a negative edge (or other high aeration situation). But most people using bleach to chlorinate don't have rapid PH rise. Now if it worked with a SWG that might be different.

 

[Sabot]

Just bring this thread back alive to see if anyone has first a pH Adjuster and second if anyone has both the pH Adjuster & The Liquidator?

I have been using the The Liquidator since last season and I believe in it. The only other item that I add on a weekly basis is acid. I am getting ready to purchase one, any last thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Sabot]

Well... installed the PH Adjuster with the Liquidator today...

I was lucky, I didn't have to drill new holes due to having plenty of pressure & suction. I just "Y" off at both the pressure and suction side. I am using a pair of Natural PVDF "Y"'s.

I went ahead and installed some Tygon UV Resistant Tubing R-3400 on the suction side for both the Liquidator and the PH Adjuster. I need to order more for the pressure side. I am waiting on two 1/4" Barb x 1/4" Barb PP Needle Valve with a EPDM stem seal. I made a small shelf which I placed the control valves and flow meters on for easier viewing. I will update this post with some pictures in a few days. If possible a scan of the diagram as well.

Per the instructions which came with the PH Adjuster, the control valves and flow meters are located on the pressure side (between the units and PVC between the filter-heater). My instructions which came with the Liquidator had them on the suction side. Before installing, I spoke to HASA and the local dealer to confirm the placement. Works so far today...

Went with the dealer suggestion and loaded 25lbs of dry acid vs the 5 pounds as stated in the manual. Which is only a few inches on the bottom of the unit. He stated it was safe and will last a while. Will watch to see what happens...

 

[Sabot]

Here is the diagram for below ground install of the PH Adjuster with the Liquidator. The bottom picture is how I used a "Y" connector on the pressure side. By doing this, I didn't have to drill any more holes. I just used the original ones that I had drilled for the Liquidator. I also attached the manual for the pH Adjuster Model PH-1000 for your review.

 

[DLSDO]

I like it.
Can you post a pic of your equipment pad also?

 

[Sabot]

Ok.. here some pictures... If I missed something that you wish to see, just let me know and I will get the picture posted as soon as possible. The pictures will make this a long post, sorry.

Overview of the Equipment Pad:

Picture of the pH Adjuster. The white you see on the bottom is 25lbs of dry acid:

Liquidator (wrapped in foil insulation), pH Adjuster with the Meter Valves and Flow Gauges above on the custom shelf:

Close-up of the gauge shelf. I marked the chlorine line with yellow zip ties and the acid with red zip ties:

Tygon tubing coming out of the pH Adjuster (routed around the Liquidator) and Liquidator:

Pressure side connector w/clear tubing (which will be replaced with Tygon tubing).

Close up of a temp "T" I am using to test the setup and while I wait for my "Y"'s to arrive:

Suction side overview of my manifold. As you can tell, I don't have a lot of places to tap into...:

Close up of a temp "T" connected to the suction Tygon tubing. Once again you see the yellow and red ties:

Another view of the section side. I decided to run the lines under the PVC, to aid in protecting them from direct sunlight:

Close-up of the suction side connection with the Tygon tubing:

 

[Sabot]

I forgot to share our TFP/BBB pool! The water is super clear and crisp! Thanks to the team here at TFP! (Sounds like an ad...) I am a first time pool owner and jump (so to speak) both feet into BBB ownership. This would never have happen without this site and it's crew of experts!

I will update every so often on how the Liquidator and pH Adjuster is working out.

Thanks again to everyone here at TFP!

PS.. forgot to add that I have a small bucket of pucks if anyone can use them. Bought them in December time frame. They are free to whom ever comes by to pick them up. I figured I try here first before moving them on Craigslist.

 

[Sabot]

A quick installation update:

First off, I am a real dope, I bought the wrong size (3/8 ID instead of proper 1/4 ID) Tygon tubing. I went ahead and installed the Tygon tubing. It fits over the 1/4” barbs a bit loose. When I left it alone, nothing happen but when I pulled it off and installed again it would pop off under pressure. I used zip locks to secure it. Same issue when I attached the tubing to the tank. So once installed, I left it alone. Here is the proper detail on the Tygon tubing from US Plastics:

PN: 57239
Cost per feet: $1.24
Description: Tygon® UV Resistant Tubing
Dimension: 1/4" I.D. 3/8" O.D. and 1/16" wall

I also purchased some Parflex PE Tubing from a local Ryan Herco dealer which they recommended for my application. It is much stiffer and fits very snuggly on the ¼” barbs. I did have problems securing it to the tanks. I had issues with it popping off. I am watching it but I am going to replace it. It’s cheaper but not worth the worry. Here are the details:

PN: 0535.624
Cost per feet: $0.56
PARFLEX INSTRUMENT-GRADE PE TUBING, BLK
Dimension: 1/4" I.D. 3/8" O.D. and 1/16" wall

I am searching for flexible UV & Chemical Resistant tubing. Anyone have any ideas? Looks like I will be investing in more Tygon tubing if I don’t find a good replacement. It’s expensive but I can’t find a replacement which is so flexible.

An operational update as well, I noticed a pressure difference on the flow indicators when the solar panels are online and when they are offline. The pressure is a bit higher when the solar is online and then lowers when they go offline. Any ideas why?

I noticed that both flow indicators where leaking a drip here/drip there. So I unscrewed the barb connectors and threaded them with some Teflon tape. I spoke with HASA and they confirmed that the leak was from the threads. Heat from sunlight/storage/delivery may have caused the plastics to contract a bit. (They do get morning sun but I noticed they don’t leak until later in the afternoon.) I am searching for a replacement anyways, just to go with the rest of my techno stuff. (They are fine but I just love to over engineer things…)

 

[cruzmisl]

Great post and thanks for the info on the Tygon tubing. I just ordered some for my Liquidator. When you find a high tech flow indicator let me know. I'm interested too

 

[stage759]

Ph adjuster

How long do you expect 25 lbs of acid last and how do you recharge the PH adjuster?

 

[Poolscout]

Thanks SABOT for the excellent thread....I am in Vegas and want a solution to my Bleach and Muriatic weekly needs...Please consider yourself one of the very helpful team members here!!!

Much like you, I have benefitted from the TFP Forum, in my case taking a "green swamp" with swimming boatmen to a nice clear pool..

Back to your system...Please keep hitting us with updates as you are clearly paying close attention to it and others will benefit from your work.

Kevin

 

[Sabot]

Thanks all for the kind words, I will update this thread as I discover tricks or treats.

I purchased both of my tank from someone whom is in the pool business. He also has the very same setup that I have on some of his customers. He stated he can get about 4-6 months for 25lbs of dry acid. I bought from a chem Distributor a 50 pound bag of Sodium Bisulfate but the UPS cost made it more expensive if it bought a 40 pound bag from a Pool Store. They shipped it in a sealable drum & plastic bag. But in the future I will only the amount I need so the rest does not collect moisture.

That Tygon tubing is really expensive so ensure you have the right size. I have not found a UV/Chem tubing that is as soft and easy to work with as Tygon. I switched up the tubing yesterday to take advantage of the Parflex PE tubing. This stuff works just awesome between the barb fittings. I installed it in the morning so the tubing was a bit cool and hard to press fit over the barbs. I took a lighter and warmed it for a few seconds and it slipped right over the barbs. I cools real quick so you need to be ready to push it over the barbs. Parflex PE does not make the clean/tight bends that I like but it's close enough.

I have yet to find who makes the flow indicators which come with the tanks. I didn't think it would be hard to find them. Anyone have any idea who makes them? I have located some flow meters which might work, I need to talk to them this week.

A side note on the pressure, I am assuming the rise in the pressure when the solar is in use is due to the solar acting like a giant resistor. Once I get the flow indicator issue solved, I start my research on this topic.

As stated before, I am a novice at pool care and operations but I really enjoy tinkering with pool. Most don't need to do what I am doing for the stock units work just fine out of the box.

 

[Sabot]

Good day all,

Update on the flowmeter search. The least expensive meter that I could find that might work was from Dwyer Instruments, Inc. It’s by no means the perfect meter but I didn’t want to test a meter that was too expensive since that would be counter productive to the whole principle. The down side of this meter is the connection points are 5/16” size with a stainless steel float. I am going to have to do a little research & testing to figure out the best connection methods. Likewise, I will report back in time to see how long the float lasts. The upside besides the costs is that this meter can be field cleaned and comes with a valve which you can use or not use. The float can also be replaced. I don't know how long this meter will last in direct sunlight. The factory tech suggested that it be kept out of direct sunlight since it will change color in time. I am going to build a little cabinet to sheild it from direct sunlight.

Here is the direct link to the Dwyer’s webpage that has the meters for water:
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/flow/SeriesMMPrice.cfm

Here are the General Specifications for the MMA meter:
Service:
- Compatible gases and liquids
Wetted Materials:
- Body: Nylon 12
- O-rings: Buna-N (Viton available upon request)
- Float: Black Glass, K Monel, Stainless Steel, Tungsten Carbide
Accuracy: +/- 4%

I am going to test the MMA-30 which has a range of .5 – 8 GPH water.

You will need to talk to a human to custom order the VITON o-rings. If you order them from any website, you will receive the Buna-N o-rings. The meters with Viton are special ordered items with an estimate 2 week lead time.

The cost of the MMA-33 with Viton O-rings is $25.90 plus shipping. Without the Viton, the price from the factory is $19.50 but I have seen them on the internet for a little cheaper.

The next best solution that I found was rotameters from King Instruments. I spoke with a tech at Kings Instruments and he recommends the following meters with Viton O-rings:
-Series 7200
- 7205008133W (This has viton o-ring, didn’t get a price)
- 7205008131W (This is a stock item with a EPR o-ring) List price: $73.80
-Series 7510 & 7511
- 7210232B07 (This has viton o-ring, didn’t get a price)
- 7210212B07 (This is a stock item with a EPR o-ring) List price: $44.52

I was a bit nervous about ordering the above rotameters since they contained Stainless Steel (316L) internals (float & float guide). I have heard from some that stated the SS and chlorine don’t like one another. So I figured I purchase the Dwyer meter since it was half the price and see how the Stainless Steel float holds up. Kings Instruments do offer better plastic internals but the meters are starting about $130 and up for each meter. Anyone have any suggestions on low flow meter which would work in this application which is also has a low cost?

 

[Sabot]

A quick note, I noted before there is a pressure differance when my solar heater kicks on. This I assume is due to the solar heater and that the two tanks are now being regulated on the pressure side vs. the suction side. Which is a must, for the tanks will overflow if I regulated on the suction side of the tanks. (I tested it and they do overflow.)

I purchased some Pressure Regulators on ebay this week which I am going to try. My goal is to keep a standard flow going to the tanks at all times. The ones that I purchased for $20 each are major overkills but I have not come across any that are cheap in price. (Which was my goal for the masses.) I am open to ideas on where I can look for cheap regulators.

I am going on the third week since I put the pH Adjuster into service and my acid demand has stopped. I think I understand the purpose for these tanks which is to regulate and keep a balance of chlorine and acid in the pool. I have only added 24oz of acid in when I added some Baking Soda. I don't use the pH Adjuster to adjust for this and it seems to keep my pH at 7.6 now for a week, even with two major rain storms and heavy pool loads.

 

[cruzmisl]

Sabot, I want to order some of the tygon tubing too. Is this the correct part number?

PN: 57239
Cost per feet: $1.24
Description: Tygon® UV Resistant Tubing
Dimension: 1/4" I.D. 3/8" O.D. and 1/16" wall


Also I like the insulation idea to keep the Liquidator protected from sunlight. Where did you buy that?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Sabot]

Joe,

Yes, 57239 is the right part number for the Tygon® UV Resistant Tubing R-3400.

Here is the link to the US Plastic's webpage:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/varian ... 5Fid=57239

I bought the insulation and metal tape from Home Depot. It's a bit pricey (@$25) but it's great to work with. You will find it in a roll over with the building insulation. The leftover can be used to wrap the water heater.

 

[Sabot]

I did a study on the flow rate through the Liquidator, pH Adjuster and both together on the pressure side. I ensured my pump basket was clean and my gauge on my filter was 9psi. I used a clean 1 gal milk jug, drew a line on the jug which I used as the fill indicator for all tests. I averaged three tests per setting, with the solar panels running and without. I found near identical flow rates running through the Liquidator and pH Adjuster. There are no backflow units installed. At the time of this test, I have only on hose in use coming off the pressure side. The Liquidator and pH Adjuster are connected via a “T”. Here are my results:

Solar On
(Setting on the Flow Indicator)
(5) 1m:15sec
(4) 1m:37sec
(3) 2m:28sec
(2) 4m:10sec
(1) 7m:25sec

GPM:
(5) 1
(4) 1
(3) .5
(2) .25
(1) .14

Solar Off
(Setting on the Flow Indicator)
(5) 1m:48sec
(4) 2m:8sec
(3) 3m:01sec
(2) 4m:27sec
(1) 7m:26sec

GPM:
(5) 1
(4) 1
(3) .5
(2) .25
(1) .14

With both the Liquidator & pH Adjuster both running:
Solar On
(Setting on the Flow Indicator)

(5) 49.5sec
GPM:
(5) 1.2

 

[dschlic1]

Bleach will leach nickel out of the stainless steel. This happens quite quickly. I have seen a piece of stainless steel become completely porous in less than 6 months in bleach.

 

[Sabot]

If you are interested in the pH Adjuster, let me share the name of the person whom has the most knowledge on this product. He is one of the original designers and owner of the Liquidator product line. He is in the industry and like many is real hard to get a hold of during the swim time. If you call HASA, chances are they are going to refer you to Mr. Booker. Mr. Booker is a wealth of information. Mr. Booker gave me permission to share his information with you:

David Booker
Clear Water Concepts
903-570-6069