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Thread: Trying to learn about my brand new pool as quickly as I can.

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    Trying to learn about my brand new pool as quickly as I can.

    Here's the deal, shiny new 13,000 gallon in ground shotcrete pool, cartridge filter, auto chlorinator, ozone system, located in HOT and sunny Phoenix, Arizona.. The day it was plastered, I had it filled with water within 6 hours.. The following day, someone from the plaster company came by and poured in 8+ gallons of muratic acid, and I can only assume that was done to keep the ph levels down? Later that same day, someone from the PB came out and added about 6lbs of stabilizer (at least thats what their checklist says),5 lbs of calcium, and a pile of 3" trichlor tablets to my auto-chlorinator as well.. I've been trying to keep the chemicals in check, and I've had my pool water tested repeatedly, and now that my pool is 2 weeks old, here are the current numbers:

    FC: 1
    pH: 7.4
    TA: 70
    Calcium Hardness: 560
    CYA: 90-100
    TDS: 1450
    Phosphates .1

    Do I need to partially drain my new pool, and if so, did the extreme amount of muratic acid in the initial startup cause this? I have to add muratic acid every few days to keep the pH down as it is (new plaster the cause?)..

    Suggestions?

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    Do I need to partially drain my new pool, and if so, did the extreme amount of muratic acid in the initial startup cause this?
    I'm not sure what you mean. Cause what? Clarify that a little and I or someone else will have several comments on your test results.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Welcome to TFP!

    Adding all that acid at the beginning is called an acid start. That is a good way to keep plaster dust under control. The acid start wouldn't have caused any problems. I am surprised, however, that they added any calcium at startup.

    Your CYA is higher than I would like. It would be a good idea to stop using any more of the trichlor tablets since they add more CYA.

    Your CH is a little high, but may be normal for your area. You should test your fill water, if it is over 300 then you will tend to have high CH and there is little to be done. If your fill water is below 300 it would be a good idea to replace some water to get your CH and CYA down. Ideally I would aim for CYA around 70 or 80 and CH around 400.

    Frequent acid additions are normal for new plaster. Typically you need to add a lot of acid frequently for the first three weeks to a month, and then somewhat less acid reguarly for the first year.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Duraleigh- I was mainly concerned about the hardness and the cyanauric acid levels being so high..

    Jason - with the high CYA level, wouldn't I also need to maintain an abnormally high free chlorine level as well?

    Thanks for the quick response!

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    I gotcha' now. The short answer is "No". CH and CYA levels are unrelated to muriatic (it's for pH)

    To answer the other, yes, you'll have to keep your FC somewhere around 8-12ppm to be really effective with your CYA that high. As a result, you will lose more FC daily to the Sun.

    As Jason said, it would be a really good idea to do a partial drain and refill....getting your CYA down in the 40 (I think Jason's saying 70-80 in case you have an SWG....I don't think you do) or so range. You'll lose less chlorine (keep it about 3-5ppm)

    Keep the CH below 400 (if your fill water is lower than that in CH) you will greatly reduce the risk of scaling if you can reduce the CH.

    Nix the tabs ASAP. They're driving up your CYA making that condition harder and harder to deal with.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Hi locash, and welcome.

    You said , "I've had my pool water tested repeatedly" so I am assuming that you are having that done at the pool store? If you are, you really do need to get your own test kit! duraleigh (Dave) sells one on this site (the link is in his signature) . We are still using Ben's kit from PoolForum w/refills from TFP. Best money we have spent!! Being a newbie, all I can say is that if we had not found PoolForum, gotten priceless help from the mods & started testing our own water, we would not be locash----- we would be NO CASH!

    Hang in there with the pH rise, lots of us are going through it.

    Joyce
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    I do not have a SWG.. I actually ordered the FAS-DPD kit before I found this forum, although it has not arrived yet, and if it does not arrive in the next few business days, I'm cancelling my order and buying the one duraleigh sells, as I'd rather support this forum than those clowns at Leslie's, haha.. I've been having the water tested by the pool store, as well as the test strips, AND I bought one of these Aqua Vizor wireless pool monitor units (it has a 14 day return policy, and I figured I'd at least try it out), so I have a lot of redundant data.. The one thing I like about the Aqua Vizor is that it does tell me the ORP value, which is kind of handy.. It's too bad my pool builder highly promoted the in line chlorinator to my wife "you won't ever have to add chemicals directly to the pool!", what a load of ****. Can you use liquid chlorine in these? The only thing I like about it is that it adds the chlorine through the returns, rather than me pouring it on top of the water, where it may evaporate quicker..

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    Also, when I partially drain and refill the pool, in what order should I address the pH/alkalinity/FC/etc? Should one always be done before the next? I assume I should get the pH in order first, and then address everything else?

    I never expected such great info, I should have posted sooner!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    You should take care of both PH and chlorine right away. They don't interact with each other much so you can do them both at the same time.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Due to the great response from members here, I just paid for my lifetime supporter membership!

    Thanks again for all of your help, I look forward to being as wise as you guys, and be able to help the next newbie like me!

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    Within months you will think you are an expert and laugh at all this. I promise!
    8500 Gallon Fiberglass IG / Sta-Rite pump,cartridge filter & heater / PoolPilot Dig 220-36 SWG / Testing w/K2006

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    locash,

    Don't give up on the in-line chlorinator. It's perfect for vacations and, as you learn more about your pool, you'll find other times when you can use it very conveniently. The primary issue is monitoring your CYA and pH reasonably well when you use the pucks.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13
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    Hi locash,
    You said, "It's too bad my pool builder highly promoted the in line chlorinator to my wife "you won't ever have to add chemicals directly to the pool!", what a load of ****. Can you use liquid chlorine in these? The only thing I like about it is that it adds the chlorine through the returns, rather than me pouring it on top of the water, where it may evaporate quicker.."..... ...pb said what?

    No, you cannot use liquid chlorine in th in-line chlorine feeders, but there are some auto-chlorinators out there for liquid chlorine, and some members here use them.

    To add bleach (plain, unscented) to your pool, just walk around your pool and pour in the bleach (determine amt. needed based on Jason's calculator). You should add the bleach at night - or after the sun is off your pool. Make sure you run your pump/filter for at least an hour after adding bleach. This is how I (& others here) add bleach and as far as I know, it does not evaporate-- it does its job. It takes less than THREE minutes for me to do this!

    Also, your in-line chlorinator will come in handy for other times, when perhaps your CYA gets low & you want to use up some of those pucks, or you have to leave things on 'automatic' for an abscence or something.

    Now, as far as your PB telling your wife that you will not have to add chems directly to the pool , uh, your new-best-friend is going to be MURATIC ACID for a while! Make sure you use EYE protection (some of us also use gloves) & be cautious with this stuff. No splashing. Pour s-l-o-w-l-y and don't breath it.

    Hope this helps. Gotta go make my list for Lowes tomorrow........ got Muratic Acid on it.

    Joyce
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Good point about the auto-chlorinator and vacations, that thought hadn't crossed my mind.. What's funny is that I just got done telling my wife that we can return that 5 gallon bucket full of 3" trichlor tabs because we won't need them, haha.. I guess I'll save them for when I wont be around to keep an eye on the thing (and they work well for a fountain I have in front of my house, since I don't drink out of it, or touch the water!)..

    Donnie - I already feel like an expert!

  15. Back To Top    #15
    locash,
    you can also pour your bleach slowly in front of a return and it will mix nicely. Some here just pour it slowly through the skimmer, pump running, though some will say that doing that long-term may damage your equipment.

    In any case, bleach is slightly heavier that water (before it is all mixed together) so it will not 'sit on top of the water' and evaporate.

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
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    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Thanks for the advice! I just tested the calcium hardness of the tap water, and it is 220 ppm. I actually expected it to be harder than that.. I put a small sump pump in my pool and will drain about 6" of it out tonight and refill.. I'd do more, except I don't have a place to drain the water, other than the street, and don't want to cause a problem with the neighbors (or the city) by draining out too much at once.. I'll repeat the process nightly, until my hardness and CYA are in a better range..

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    Ummm, it's illegal to dump it into the street in Phoenix. Why not just pump it into your yard? Else, you can connect a hose to your sewer cleanout to dump it.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
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    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Oh, I never knew it was illegal to do that, I just didnt want to cause a street flooding issue, time to fix that problem. I completely forgot about the sewer cleanout, I'll go do that right now, since its only been on for a few minutes..

    Thanks for the heads up..

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Oh, yeah. They take it very seriously. Sort of takes the cheap out of the BBB method, if you get caught.

    http://phoenix.gov/WATER/pooldrn.html

    City Code, Section 31-8 and Section 23-33 prohibits discharging or allowing water to escape into a city street, other right of way, or other city property. A violation of either of these sections constitutes a class 1 misdemeanor and may result in a fine of up to $2,500, imprisonment of up to six months, probation not to exceed three years, or a combination of all three. Each incident or day of violation constitutes a separate offense.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Wow, thats pretty crazy.. I wonder why that is? Is it the same situation if I wash my car for 5 hours in the driveway? I do pay for my water and sewer service.. Strange..

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