Grounding Hayward Power-Flo Matrix Pump

[Sportsman]

OK, I've read and read and believe I understand bonding. Above Ground Pool is set to go up Monday and now at the last minute I have a grounding question.

I'm installing a display pool and just found the pump manual. Up front it stresses bonding but later says to permanently ground motor using green ground terminal provided under motor canopy or access place.

Problems:
1. I can't find green ground terminal, just bonding lug. There is a green wire but while visible, there is no terminal end that is accessible. It goes back in to the pump.

2. How do I ground it? The initial electrician set to come out (sub from landscaper) said a separate bare copper wire from pump area to main panel was required. That electrician was taking weeks to come out so the landscaper called another electrician. He didn't know anything about the extra wire including me questioning him. I did show him the pump and grounding lug.

That was months ago. I've had other issues that delayed my install. Now I think I needed that wire to the main panel to ground the pump, though I'm still not sure where to connect it. Am I screwed now that all the wire is pulled and connected? The first electrician had pulled the permit. I wonder if the second did it with out a permit. When I asked him about inspection, he said the city didn't come out on small jobs.

 

[Guest]

Bonding and grounding are two separate things. You will have a ground wire on your pump to the electrical supply, but you need a #8 copper bond wire from the pool (metal) to the bonding lug on the pump (and heater, if applicable). Bonding is for metal in the pool or decking, or fencing within 5' of the pool, etc.

I'm not the best at explaining stuff like this sometimes (I just know what needs to be done and how to do it ). I hope that helped somewhat though!

 

[Sportsman]

I have the bonding lug and understand how to connect to metal on the pool to equalize potential.

There is not an exposed grounding wire other than a green wire that loops right back into the motor. The electrical cord is a 3 prong that will go into a GFCI receptacle. Is the ground in electrical cord sufficient ground? It doesn't seem so from the manual but the manual also says there should be a grounding screw which I can't find.

 

[Sportsman]

Also I get conflicting answers from pool folks and electricians. None really understood bonding and the electrician who hooked up my power supply said the pump didn't need a separate ground.

I want to be completely safe. I guess I can always disconnect the pump from power when in the pool.

 

[Guest]

I'm not up on the AG pools (we don't have many of them here ), so I can't accurately answer if the cord is safe enough (and I understand the conflicting information that you are seeing and why you are confused!).

I prefer to always run my pump when anyone is in the pool, so unplugging would not be ideal for me. I like to have filtration and introduction of chlorine when bodies are in the pool!

I wish I could be more help. I'm just not familiar enough with the AG pools; I'm sorry.

 

[Sportsman]

no worries, thanks for the advice you've given. Maybe someone else can help.

It is on a GFCI and I will be properly bonding so I've got that part.

 

[JohnT]

US or Canada?

Your pump is grounded through the plug. Any chance you have a manual for more than one pump or the wrong manual? Manuals anymore go so far overboard with warnings and other languages that it can be very difficult to actually figure out what it is saying :grrrr:

Your bond lug should be on the outside of the housing and is not to be connected to the panel unless you are in Canada. Your description of the instructions sounds like the instructions for an IG pump.

It sounds to me like your electrician may be trying to pull a fast one with the permit.

What model is your pump?

 

[Bama Rambler]

Just to reinforce what Bruce and JohnT said, Grounding and bonding are two different things. You need both.

The manual you have is probably a generic manual for several configurations so it'll have things in there that may not apply to your particular model. Since yours came with a cord already attached the ground is already hooked to the grounding lug inside the pump and it'll be hooked to the house grid as soon as you plug it in. No need for a separate ground.

 

[Sportsman]

Thanks for the information. I feel much better.

The model is Hayward Power-Flo Matrix SP15931FP. The manual says "Power Flo Matrix" on the cover but I believe it is generic and suspected that was part of my problem. On Hayward's site, it's the same PDF manual for all above ground pumps.

Yes, I believe my electrician pulled a fast one. Other than whether I needed a separate copper wire for grounding, the job was done well and per code. I'm in conduit 2' deep, GFCI etc. I will be doing the bonding myself because no one seems familiar with it. I've read extensively here and other pool/electrical forums and it's not that complicated to do. The only question I have left is how to/whether I need to bond the actual wall. I have a place to bond each main brace (24x12 oval), will insert a stainless sleeve with copper bracket/lug to bond the water, and connect it all to the bonding lug. I've read that the wall's connection to the buttresses will bond it and others that I need to connect to it.

 

[JasonLion]

Bonding the walls depends on how things are put together. If there is a solid electrical connection between the walls and the braces then all you need is a connection to the brace.

 

[gqjeff]

I can not find anywhere to connect to my pool for bonding? Also what do you bond to after u run your heater,pump and SWG together? Does anybody have a good link showing pics or anything?

 

[Sportsman]

I can not find anywhere to connect to my pool for bonding? Also what do you bond to after u run your heater,pump and SWG together? Does anybody have a good link showing pics or anything?

I'll try to remember to take pics when I do mine next week - not that I'm an expert. I plan on using existing extra holes on the braces. Tee copper wire and lugs can be bought from HD or Lowes.

 

[gqjeff]

Thanks please do. My braces are resin not metal though, the only thing metal our the walls.

 

[ShockerLU3]

Bonding is intended to equalize possible potential differences between all conductive parts, as previously stated. As for EXACTLY what should be done only one person can answer that for sure, your local code inspector. Some cities and municipalities have codes that supercede the NEC (National Electrical Code). A phone call may go a long way to clear up any unknowns for you. Typically, the bond is a single unbroken 8AWG bare wire that connects all electrical equipment to the metallic frame of the pool. This is usually done through a lug that is attached to the closest strut to the motor via a nut and bolt or sheet metal screw. I personally have never seen the pool wall itself bonded since the mechanical connections to the frame counts as continuing the bond. I have, however, seen where the local inspector wanted a continuous loop of wire around the pool attached at four separate points along the way. Again, a call to the inspector may save you a lot of hassle and time.

 

[Bama Rambler]

IF your uprights are are resin and the only metal part is the wall then you should bond it at the wall joint. Attaching a lug to the row of bolts that hold the wall together that will suffice for the bond.