Intelliflo VF and Clean Pressure Question

[ride525]

Got my Intelliflo VF hooked up yesterday, haven't yet cleaned out a partially dirty filter. It still wasn't completely dirty, so have not cleaned it yet, but may need to today

Was running the Intelliflo at 29 gpm, the filter reads about 5 psi. Have the Clean filter pressure set to 14 psi, yet the Intelliflo gets a service alert, and thinks the filter is clogged up now, running less than a day. Yet the psi on the filter has barely moved, it certainly has not moved 14 psi higher. (The RPMs increased steadily over a few hours, then dropped the GPM after the Alert.)

Here is my question for those that know the VF: What is your GPM and normal filter running pressure, and what do you have the VF set for on "Clean Filter Pressure"? And what is the filter running pressure after you get the Service System Soon Alert, telling you to backwash? (The instruction manual example shows a starting pressure of 10 psi, and with "Clean Filter Pressure" set at 14 psi, then the Alert happens at 24 psi, "which is a 14 psi increase.")

But mine just seems to get the Alert, and the filter pressure doesn't change hardly at all, after running the pump for a few hours. This is with admittedly somewhat dirty filter, although by my older cleaning standards, the filter had a way to go before becoming completely clogged.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Jeff

 

[geekgranny]

I have some things to say about that but I don't have a moment to spare right now. Hopefully will post tonight but tomorrow at latest. You can reset the alert by stopping filtering and run backwash setting for a moment (without actually doing a backwash). That might give you a little more time. The VF is extremely sensitive to filter pressure. Mine starting at 3-4 psi will start alerting right about at a rise of 6. I run mine 21/7 but give it three one hour off periods during the 24 hours. This was suggested to let the filter media settle and redistribute. It seems to help just a little. More later.

Is there any reason you haven't backwashed? I would like to suggest that you take the filter apart, if it is DE filter, and clean it well, even doing an automatic dishwasher detergent soak of the grids or cartridges if DE. This will give you a better idea of your real clean starting pressure.

At the pump I set my clean, starting pressure at 10 psi, but it still complains when it goes from 3-4 to 9 psi. When it gets to 9 it is showing filter at about 96%.

I was running the vacuum Pool Cleaner on vacuum setting but it doesn't have the safety shut off on that setting so it didn't complain, and won't. (Instructions say to only use the vacuum feature only if you are right there doing a manual vacuum as the safety feature is not active using that feature). Last time I used the vacuum Pool Cleaner I used feature #1. Pump didn't complain about pressure rise. But I don't remember how dirty the filter was.

gg=alice

 

[ride525]

I actually put some brand new grids in, as the replacements I purchased from Leslies lasted only just over a year. The originals lasted about 10 years I think.

Clean Filter % was at 16% after only a few hours of adding DE and running, so I reset it by running pump in backwash "mode", although as your suggested, just leaving valves in Filter mode. It's still at 0% after running an hour.

I have a different question about backwash setting, which I will post separately.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[JasonLion]

Your filter pressure gauge is probably broken. They tend to break every one to three years.

 

[ride525]

Jason,

Thanks for the reply. I think my filter pressure gauge was working fine before I replaced my 1 hp single speed pump. I'm guessing the flow may have been around 50 GPM with my old pump, and the gauge would start at about 16 psi. Then go up to almost 30 psi, when the filter was ready for cleaning.

I can run the VF at 50 GPM, and gauge reads 15 psi. (I also replaced the filter grids today.) The gauge just goes to a really low reading of about 5 psi (and lower) at low flows, when the VF is at 30 GPM (or lower). Don't these low psi readings seem consistent with other postings of filter pressure at low VF flows?

Jeff

 

[ride525]

Update: I took readings for the new VF pump at every flow rate from 15 GPM to 50 GPM. The pressure gauge reads from about 1 at 15 GPM to 15 psi at 50 GPM.

And I replaced the DE filter grids, with new ones, since the old ones (Leslies replacements) had skeleton cracking starting at only about one year. After putting in new grids, loading with DE, and letting things stabilize for an hour, the Clean Filter Pressure remained at 0% until 10pm shutoff.

Running at 23 GPM, (245 kw, 1445 RPM) which seems to be optimal setting for my system getting most flow per kwh. The Filter shows 2-3 psi. Both of these are close to what Richard (Chem Geek) posted, he found 26 GPM to be optimal for him, his readings posted at 24 GPM was 1460 RPM, and 255 kw, and 4 psi.

Jeff

 

[JasonLion]

Alright, the gauge must be alright.

The two tidbits I know about the clean filter pressure setting is that it should actually be set to the pressure increase that triggers a dirty filter warning, despite it's labeling as the clean filter pressure. The other is that the setting must be high enough to account for the filter pressure at the highest speed the pump might be run at. In particular, the pressure should be set higher than the pressure you will get when running at the max priming flow. If set to low and the pump decides it has lost prime, it will attempt to re-prime which will temporarily increase the flow rate and could trigger a dirty filter warning.

 

[ride525]

Alright, the gauge must be alright.

The two tidbits I know about the clean filter pressure setting is that it should actually be set to the pressure increase that triggers a dirty filter warning, despite it's labeling as the clean filter pressure. The other is that the setting must be high enough to account for the filter pressure at the highest speed the pump might be run at. In particular, the pressure should be set higher than the pressure you will get when running at the max priming flow. If set to low and the pump decides it has lost prime, it will attempt to re-prime which will temporarily increase the flow rate and could trigger a dirty filter warning.

Thanks Jason,

A couple of questions:

1. I did know that the Clean Pressure setting was for the pressure increase from starting pressure to giving a dirty filter warning. I left mine at 14 psi. I just am not sure that filter pressure will go from say 5 (edited) psi (with a clean filter), to 19 psi before I get the warning.

2. I did not realize that setting the Priming Flow might trigger the dirty filter warning. I would have guessed that the Clean Filter % might not calculate until the Filter Mode starts, after the Priming mode. I will have to play with the Priming to make sure it is not set too high, but not too low either.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[ride525]

Follow up:

I just checked, and I have a hard-to-read gauge. It goes from 0-60 psi. It has 9 markings between each 10 to indicate each psi. Except at 0-10 psi, it has only seven markings, so I guess the first marking is 3 psi. So that means the filter pressure is at 5 psi, running normally at 23 GPM.

I have the Priming GPM setting at 35 GPM right now. I turned off pump and checked Priming a couple of times, and the filter gauge went up to about 6 psi, then dropped down to the running 5 psi in just a few seconds. And the Clean Filter % remains at 0%, so hasn't raised since restarting with new grids yesterday.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[geekgranny]

Alright, the gauge must be alright.

The two tidbits I know about the clean filter pressure setting is that it should actually be set to the pressure increase that triggers a dirty filter warning, despite it's labeling as the clean filter pressure. The other is that the setting must be high enough to account for the filter pressure at the highest speed the pump might be run at. In particular, the pressure should be set higher than the pressure you will get when running at the max priming flow. If set to low and the pump decides it has lost prime, it will attempt to re-prime which will temporarily increase the flow rate and could trigger a dirty filter warning.

So maybe what they really mean in the manual is "clean { the filter at this } pressure setting"?

Want to see if I understand.

Question: So if usually running with clean filter start at 3 psi but it triggers an alert at 9 then setting pump at 10 would be just about right? That's what I'm doing now.

So if while using vacuum cleaner the pressure goes to 10 psi (when it is not really filled with dirt) the setting should be a little above that?

So when filter is getting nearing backwash time, at say 10 (starting clean at 3) but when using the vac cleaner, near backwash time, raises pressure to 15-20 should the filter start setting be on 15 to 20?

My Quad pressure release has a little ring around the pressure gauge you can set on starting pressure and then indicates, with a little pointer on the ring, a rise in 8 psi, as a backup measure.

When I clean the Quad, in a day or so, I'm going to try the Aqua Pearl, that finally came in, to see if I can get more time between filter clean. Also, I can't get over about 1/3 of the cellulose out of the filter by backwashing. Hoping Aqua Pearl might work better. Taking the filter top off every week and pressure hosing the cartridges is a drag.

Thanks, gg=alice

 

[ride525]

Alice,

I think it's different than what you said. Page 19 of the VF manual gives an example of Clean Filter Pressure set to 14. It looks to me that you need to clean the filter after a RISE of 14 psi. The example shows a starting pressure of 10 psi, then rising 14 psi over a year, to a final 24 psi.

So, in your example, with a start of 3 psi, and a Clean Filter Pressure of 10 psi, the Alert "should" happen at about 13 psi. (I must admit, I don't know how the VF calculates or measures the psi.)

Also, as a side note, my % Clean Filter Pressure has remained at 0% for the last 1.5 days of running the VF.

Jeff

 

[geekgranny]

Alice,

I think it's different than what you said. Page 19 of the VF manual gives an example of Clean Filter Pressure set to 14.
It looks to me that you need to clean the filter after a RISE of 14 psi. The example shows a starting pressure of 10 psi, then rising 14 psi over a year, to a final 24 psi.

Thanks for that info.

But we don't want it to rise by 14 psi. Most DE filters, I'm aware of advise backwashing at 8 to 10 rise. At least I don't want a rise of that much. When my psi rises by 6 my VF ramps up and wattage use doubles. At a 10 psi rise wattage use triples keeping the same gpm.

My loads of carried in and blown in extremely fine, cementous dust really does a number on filters. Frequent backwashing has been a constant here for 24 years. Last few years our dust amounts have increased and until last year we were in a 2-3 year drought. So now, even with a double sized, new filter about the most i can get, using cellulose, is 10 days before the electric use goes up way beyond what I want.

So if the highest rise in pressure I expect to get, with dirty filter (in my case 10 psi), is 20 psi using the vac cleaner what would I set the "clean filter" setting on?

gg=alice

 

[ride525]

Alice,

I wasn't suggesting that you use a 14 psi rise in pressure. It was just from the example in the manual. Starting at 10 psi and with a 14 psi rise (the Clean Filter Pressure setting) then the final pressure from the manual example is 24 psi.

In your case if you start at 3 psi, and set the rise (Clean Filter Pressure) to 7 psi, then the final pressure would be 7+3 = 10 psi.

Relooking at your post makes it seem like your pool filter runs at 3 psi clean without vacuum, and 7 psi higher with vacuum, so clean filter with vacuum is 10 psi. Do I have this right?

So, if you start at 10 psi with vacuum, then setting with 6 psi rise (Clean Filter Pressure setting) would give a final pressure of 16.

I think you could either start with 10 psi with vacuum in and use Clean Filter Pressure of 6 (=16 final). Or start without the vacuum, at 3 psi, and use Clean Filter Pressure of 13, giving the Alert at 16 final again. I think it should work about the same either way. (This starting with vacuum assumes the vacuum adds 7 psi to your clean filter when you up the vacuum.)

Finally, a couple of closing thoughts. How about using a cover to keep a lot of the dirt out? Second, if you use a self contained robotic cleaner with onboard filter, this should save your from cleaning you DE filter so often. (Of course you will be cleaning out the robotic filter instead.)

Hope this helps,

Jeff

 

[ride525]

Alice,

I just checked my VF settings with and without my Pool Vac, which just connects to the suction at the skimmer. The VF flow is at 22 GPM now. The pressure at the filter does not change very much at all.

At 22 GPM:
without pool vac, 267 watts, 1510 RPM.
with pool vac, 297 watts, 1590 RPM

Jeff

 

[JasonLion]

The "base" pressure, to which the "clean filter pressure" is added to determine when the filter is dirty, is determined when you do a backwash sequence on the control panel. The pressure after backwashing becomes the base pressure for the next cycle.

 

[geekgranny]

Alice,

I think it's different than what you said. Page 19 of the VF manual gives an example of Clean Filter Pressure set to 14. It looks to me that you need to clean the filter after a RISE of 14 psi. The example shows a starting pressure of 10 psi, then rising 14 psi over a year, to a final 24 psi.

So, in your example, with a start of 3 psi, and a Clean Filter Pressure of 10 psi, the Alert "should" happen at about 13 psi. (I must admit, I don't know how the VF calculates or measures the psi.)

Also, as a side note, my % Clean Filter Pressure has remained at 0% for the last 1.5 days of running the VF.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. It's sinking in a bit now and what you said is helping. I had my pump set to 2 turnovers a day (adjusting pool volume value) but set it back down to about 1.4 turnovers yesterday. That's 26 gpm, 263 watts, 1475 rpm. "clean filter" still set on 10 and percentage is 0%. I have to have that gpm to have my Pool Skim run effectively. Pressure after a week has only risen from 3 psi to 6 psi (at 26 gpm) and that is because I have been using the Aquabot instead of the Pool Cleaner. That's a week and looks like maybe I can get another week. I'm going to continue using the Aquabot till next filter cleanout, when I switch from cellulose to Aqua Pearl and then continue to use the Aquabot till the next filter cleaning so as to compare the two media. Aquabot is more hassle than Pool Cleaner as I have to change out the bag every 7 hours or so because it gets clogged with the fine dust and silt. Sand does not clog it. It needs to run minimum of 7 hours per 24 hour period.

See below, my next post in answer to your post about cover.

Thanks, gg=alice

 

[geekgranny]

Alice,

I wasn't suggesting that you use a 14 psi rise in pressure. It was just from the example in the manual. Starting at 10 psi and with a 14 psi rise (the Clean Filter Pressure setting) then the final pressure from the manual example is 24 psi.

I didn't really think you suggested that. Sorry I wasn't clear. I was aiming my comment more towards Pentair.

In your case if you start at 3 psi, and set the rise (Clean Filter Pressure) to 7 psi, then the final pressure would be 7+3 = 10 psi.

Relooking at your post makes it seem like your pool filter runs at 3 psi clean without vacuum, and 7 psi higher with vacuum, so clean filter with vacuum is 10 psi. Do I have this right?

So, if you start at 10 psi with vacuum, then setting with 6 psi rise (Clean Filter Pressure setting) would give a final pressure of 16.

I think you could either start with 10 psi with vacuum in and use Clean Filter Pressure of 6 (=16 final). Or start without the vacuum, at 3 psi, and use Clean Filter Pressure of 13, giving the Alert at 16 final again. I think it should work about the same either way. (This starting with vacuum assumes the vacuum adds 7 psi to your clean filter when you up the vacuum.)

That makes sense. Thanks.

Finally, a couple of closing thoughts. How about using a cover to keep a lot of the dirt out? Second, if you use a self contained robotic cleaner with onboard filter, this should save your from cleaning you DE filter so often. (Of course you will be cleaning out the robotic filter instead.)

Hope this helps,

Jeff

Can't do any cover except for aftermarket solid safety cover and just can't swing the $Ks now, maybe never. This is because of the dogs. Basically we maintain the pool for the dogs so it has to be available to them throughout the day. Solar cover too dangerous and wouldn't really keep much of the dust out, as reported by several members. Besides, the water is warm enough. During summer wouldn't want it any warmer especially since we cut the shading tree down this spring.

The Aquabot does a great job as long as it runs long enough; minimum 7 hours on less dusty days. But it doesn't get it all. I use fine bags and they clog up after 5-7 hours. The old Aquabot is good in one major ways as it moves slowly enough to not stir up the settled dust. Faster robots do stir it up more.

Aquabot it more hassle in several ways. Although the dogs have no trouble swimming over the Polaris and Pool Cleaner hose, my strongest swimmer gets tangled in the Aquabot cord. So I can't safely use it during the day when dogs are using the pool. So I have to run it at night when they are kept inside because of venomous snake bites. In the a.m., when we let the dogs out, the 'bot has to be pulled to the deep end with cord gathered up and stored on deck. I avoid pulling it out of pool as much as possible because of old back injury. So once or twice a day, to change out bag, is all I want to put my back through. Cleaning the bags is a real hassle. They have to be washed in the washer to get the embedded dust out. But before that rinsed out well to keep as much stuff out of old septic tank as possible.

Pool Cleaner is much less hassle and I can run it anytime without endangering the dogs but it does fill up the filter faster. I'm still weighing which hassle I prefer, ie., cleaning the bags or cleaning the filter. I'm hoping that the Aqua Pearl might backwash out better than cellulose.

I've used Polaris 280 since they came on market. Only one bag can capture some of the dust. It is the EZ disposable bags. They are quite expensive. The cheapest I can find them is 6 for $25 plus shipping. By cleaning them I can get about 36 hours use before the "fabric" starts deteriorating. But they let enough dust through that the water stays a little cloudy. And the Polaris does stir the settled dust up some while the Aquabot and Pool Cleaner do very little stirring. I have made Polaris bags from plant frost cloth that do capture better but they are too good at it and clog very fast. On top of all that running the Polaris booster for minimum 10 hours a day is costly.

There are very few people on TFP even who can really grasp the dust issues. One has to experience it to really believe it. Add in five dogs who are in and out of the pool and playing in the "dust bowl" or "mud pit", depending on weather, and it is a real challenge keeping the water sparkly. Oh, yes, then there's my long term process of dissolving the calcium scale by low pH and sequestrant for scale. Because the dogs have to be kept up dusk to dawn because of the snakes they have to exercise and play during sizzling daytime temps. The pool keeps them from becoming overheated. Snakes are out March through October.

I'm saving my pennies for a winter safety cover. The whole forest ends up in my pool from late Oct through March. Two Pool Skims and Polaris with leaf bags, running round the clock, emptying all several times a day, really don't keep up with the leaves. And I'm tired of dealing with the leaves all winter.

gg=alice