First time use Hayward SWCG in the middle of nowhere

[fwavand]

Hello, We moved to "the middle of the stick" remote location away from help and supplies. We bought Hayward system and cell, lots of salt and a water testing kit in Houston and shipped this over in a container... So new pool made to dodgy standards but seems to work. But now with water (from a dedicated well) and salt in the system and the Hayward system running and hooked up to the T-15 cell and flowmeter, I get the following: Power LED on green, Generating LED first on now off, Check salt LED on, Check Cell LED on. Ph was perfect and now8.2 ish. They do have chemicals here but only for conventional pools. Questions.
1) What is the Hayward system really telling me?
2) What does inspect cell mean? (I had a good look.... looks fine but who am I? what do I need to look for - looks clean and not broken)
3) Can I use alternative as stabiliser as noone has Cyanuric acid unless combined with Chlorine in powder form.
4) If the Generating LED is off and the Superchlorinate LED is on while superchlorinating is it generating chlorine or not?

Many thanks for any help - can't say I find the Hayward manual particularly informative either for installation or use... but perhaps that is my ignorance?!

Regards, Floor

 

[JasonLion]

Welcome to TFP!

You should post a full set of water test results.

Bring the PH down to around 7.4 to 7.6. If it continues to go up, bring it down lower each time, to 7.2 to 7.4.

Inspect cell can come on for a number of reasons. In this case it is probably on because of a low salt level. Do you have any way to test the salt level?

Inspect cell means to take the cell out of plumbing and look through the union at the cell plates. The plates should be clean and free of debris, appearing either silver metallic or black. Mostly you are watching out for a white crusty residue accumulating on the plates, but any kind of debris stuck in there is also a problem.

If you can find dichlor or trichlor and soda ash/washing soda/PH Up, you can use them to raise the CYA level, though it will take a while. Dichlor adds 0.9 ppm of CYA for every 1 ppm of chlorine. Trichlor adds 0.6 ppm of CYA for every 1 ppm of chlorine. Both of them lower the PH and TA, so you will need some soda ash to keep the PH in range while using either of them.

If the generating LED is off, the system is not running.

 

[fwavand]

Great help. Thanks!

OK I will see what I can get. I think they have Trichlor something Cyanuric acid...

My Chlorirdes proved to be 0 both free and total according the 5 drops of reacgent 001 and 002 and then for total 003.

Have no way of testing salt level except to say that it tasted saltier than anything before after adding 12 bags to estimated 75m3 of water (in fact I think I may have 8m3 less than that). I dispensed of 10m3 and added fresh water. taste is now almost not salty - which I take to be a better sign but probably rather unreliable... They do not know anything about salt systems here.
The plates look ok. Could it be that the chemistry being out of balance puts the LED on to inspect cell?

Without being an expert, I expect my salt level was too high because I over estiamted the water contents to start with and did no measure the salt levels to start with. Also the salt taste was a sure hint. Is there a way I could measure water resistivity with a digital multimeter or so to establish salinity?

Will report back once I have more on the chemical side... Mean time any further tips/help would be most gratefully received!

Thanks, Floor

 

[fwavand]

oh, and what is TA?

 

[fwavand]

Found a Water Quality test kit that is meant to determine drinking water quality (?) I think. It can give :

Chloride
Copper
Free Chloride
Hydrogren Sulfide
Iron
Nitrate
Nitrite
Total Chlorine
Total HArdness
Sulfate
PH
Lead
Bacteria
Pasticide

Willany of those or a combination help me with Salt content. Combination of Chlorides perhaps?

Thanks, Floor

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

TA is total alkalinity. we recommend a level of 70-90 for SWG pools.

CYA is also labeled "stablizer" or "conditioner" on packaging - you have to read the labels to see the active ingredients.

I'd recommend you order Aquachek salt test strips online and have them shipped. What test kit is it you are using?

 

[JasonLion]

It sounds like you are mixing up chloride with chlorine. Chloride is salt (which has the element chlorine in it), while chlorine means active disinfecting chlorine (which is actually HOCl, which also has the element chlorine in it). Free/total/combined are words put in front of chlorine, not chloride.

If you can measure Chloride, that is the salt level we are interested in (which has nothing directly to do with Free Chlorine or Total Chlorine).

 

[fwavand]

Mod Squad and Site admin,

Thanks. Yes of course. Chlorine!

We have forthe pool Leslie's "Deluxe Poolcare DPD Test Kit" recommended by them as we were leaving the US.

I also have for Water drinking quality "ITS" Water Quality Test Kit. (that test allthe properties I mentioned above.

Mean time I have managed to get my hands on Algecide, PH Minus, Descaler.... and that I am afraid is about all they have apart from Chlorine tablets and granules and test strips.

Any alternatives to Baking Soda?....

Ciao, Floor

 

[JasonLion]

Baking soda should be available just about anywhere. It is usually sold in the baking isle at grocery stores. You can use the pool store version, often called something like Alkalinity Increaser, the same chemical just for more money.

I believe the DPD deluxe kit has FC, TC, and TA tests. The FC and TC tests are only really good up to FC/TC levels of around 10, which is why we recommend a different test kit that can measure FC and CC up to 50. You are also going to need a CYA test, though you can get by with guess work right at first, since the CYA level will start at zero and you can estimate how much you have added from there.

 

[fwavand]

ok. I have diluted the water back to reduce salt concentration (blind as I do not have anything to verify the salt concentration yet). I am using TrichloreCyanuricaxid (?) with Algecide and Ph Minor to keep things in control...? pH is doable and 7.6. No sign of chlorine with my test kit at all... clear water.Water temperature is probably around 28 deg C and no indication of algae with the pool having been run for 2 week like this.

Cgecked my Cl genration cell visually. Looks good (?) i.e. a few small pieces (3 or 4) of grass or something else but very small somewhere in there. All I can see are thin white plate ends look at me from both ends. I am unable to open to view better and not sure anthing is removable or openable. Its new, so I am assuming it is working and it is down to my chemistry that the cell is not working.

Problem: shortly after switching pump on (SWG switches on too) but does nottake long for the generator LED to switch off and the CHECK CEL and CHECK salt LEDs to come on. Should I leave the system off for a while and switch on after 24hrs?

Is there anything else I can try?
THANKS!!!

 

[JasonLion]

Trichloroisocyanuric acid is what we call trichlor. It contains chlorine, CYA, and lowers the PH. You should keep count of the number of tablets you use.

Right at first your CYA level is going to start at zero and be very very low for a while. During this period you are going to lose all of your chlorine to sunlight. If you check the FC level in the late evening it should be above zero, but during the day it will be zero.

As CYA from the trichlor accumulates, you will eventually be able to hold an FC level during the day.

The cell plates shouldn't be white, they should be silvery metallic or black. You probably have some CH scaling on the plates, causing the error message. To confirm this, you really need a CH level measurement and to soak the cell in a diluted muriatic acid solution. I am having trouble thinking of alternatives you could try without those.

 

[waste]

Welcome to TFP!!

To find out what the unit thinks the salt level is:

(with the generating light on!)
Push the black diagnostic button (to the left of the LED display) 5 times

This will show you a number with a "-" in front of it - that's your salinity

(see page 14 Troubleshooting - for what the button pushes represent )

I hope you get the salt issue solved soon and raise the cya quickly!

 

[fwavand]

Great Ted, That in mighty useful to know. If I resolve the salinity issue, will the cel then work?

Also is using Triclorcyanuric going to work as the stabiliser I need?

 

[waste]

Yes, once the unit thinks the salinity is within operating range, it should generate

As per Jason's advice, I'd use the Di-chlor to more quickly raise the cya (more cya 'bang' for the buck ) You'll need to manually add chlorine until you can get the SWCG 'on- line', so use a source that will more quickly add the cya As Jason warned, watch your pH and alk while using this!

I hope to hear back from you in the near future saying that all is good!

 

[fwavand]

Good news. One last Question before I try this. What is the unit for concentration of salt the SWG will give me when I press the left button 5 times? I am hoping ppm. I understand it should be around 3000ppm.

 

[waste]

It depends on whether your unit is set for metric or 'standard' (I can tell you how to change it from one to the other

The only difference on the instant salinity is a couple of decimal points - the reading is the same

 

[fwavand]

Is it possible that my cel has a protection sleeve in it because I only see the white plastic lines showing while I understand I should be looking at metal. My salt reading on the SWCG shows nothing, Check salt LED lights up and Inspect Cel LED also lights up. I think the cel is doing nothing at all... there are also not instructions with the cel. So I installed it as is using the Hayward onlone PDF instruction manual.

Thanks

 

[gordiec]

The edges of the metal plates in my cell are encased in plastic - sounds like yours are too. You will see the metal plates (or the buildup on them) if you look in one end and shine a flashlight in the other.

 

[fwavand]

Thanks for he tip. I have had the thing out again and think I can see the metal just about, so its probably ok. What would happen if I dumped a whole bucket of Dichlor in the pool before going away for a few days t let the CYA levels get up...? Stupid question?

Getting a little frustrated here as the SWCG does not seem to show any salt concentration [- 0.00] and the generator LED switched off and "check cel" and "Check Salt" comes on. I have done a big dump and dilute in the hope that the "low salt" light will confirm I am on the other side... then I will slowly add salt until one day.... I have a salt reading and conditions to start generating ...

Any more bright ideas out there.. Thanks, Floor

 

[fwavand]

OK. after a bit of amateur pool nurturing, I now at least get readings of Chlorine and Cyanuric acid. The pool also does not taste salty anymore. So expect salt concentration to be (not too high any more) - this is following several dump and dilutes and backwashes. BUT MY SWCG STILL DOES NOT INDICATE IT IS GENERATING STILL NOW. I suspect there is a problem with the Cel (Which was new) and or the Control box or the connection (?) between the two.

What I seem to have done is ignored the existence of the SWCG and running a normal Cl pool using pH reducer (Powder), Tri-Cl-Cyanuricacid (powder), algecide (liquid) and floculant (liquid), descaler every now and then. We have managed to keep the pool relatively clean (no algae and any was killed by shocking). We have a lot of sun and no schrubs overhanging the pool with 30-45 deg C ambient temps. Tendency here is for pools to need pH reducer to maintain pH.

I now also used a set of strips to test the water properties and for the first time now see evidence of clorine See attached:

Grateful for comments on the water properties and in fact on anything I can do to get the SWCG working. I have the following specific questions:

1) Is it at all possible that the SWCG is in fact generating chlorine or doing any good even though the generating LED is off and it warns to check Salt concentration (does not indicate high) and inspect cel (cel look fine and is brand new).

2) Is it possible that the connection is no good with the SWCG cel and box? How can I check that?

3) If the cel is not working, is there any point in using salt in the water (i.e. does the combination of salt and the other chemicals have any benefits without the SWCG?

Many thanks for any help with this!