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Thread: Venyl lner "engraved" wrinkle on the bottom of the pool

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    Venyl lner "engraved" wrinkle on the bottom of the pool

    I got my 24' AG pool installed on July 10th. I also have a SWG (Aqua Trol from Goldline/Hayward).

    The floor of the pool is made of sand. The borders of the pool (under the track) is made of dust. No foam or special cover was used for the bottom.

    A few days after I started swimming in the pool, I noticed many "engraved" wrinkles (or cracks) on the floor (bottom) of the pool. Their shapes look like lightning. Hera are few pictures I took:

    After an image is loaded, click again on it to zoom

    http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7343/img3275wz4.jpg

    http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9601/img3273kw5.jpg

    http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4863/img3263nf7.jpg

    http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1913/img3261st1.jpg


    Could you tell me if those "engraved" wrinkles (or cracks) are normal?

    BIC
    Don
    SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter
    Pentair Intelliflow pump
    Pentair SWG
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
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    I would say they are not normal or preferred. It could be a 'characteristic' of the pool floor over sand which allows for some liner shift. Just my 2.
    20x40 30,000 gal IG Liner, Pentair II Sand

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    NWMNMom's Avatar
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    It looks like the bottom was not settled until after the liner went in and they are wrinkles. If the liner is not stretched in just so, wrinkles can settle into the liner and there they remain. What do you have for cove going from the bottom sand up the side?
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

  4. Back To Top    #4
    My pool has a few smaller places like that. I always figured they were caved in tunnels from critters that burrow underground.
    Sue

    18' round Sharkline Matrix AGP / 8600 Gal. / sand filter / Aqua Trol SWG
    Pool owner since 2001. Thanks to TFP for helping me convert off Baquacil after six years!

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Your pool is just barely a month old... any recourse with the installer?

    Are they wrinkles (liner comes up into the pool) or cracks (valley in the sand)? (don't know that it matters

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MeSue
    My pool has a few smaller places like that. I always figured they were caved in tunnels from critters that burrow underground.
    That is what I thought. This or because people walk or jump and that makes the sand moving and creates those cracks in the sand.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWMNMom
    It looks like the bottom was not settled until after the liner went in and they are wrinkles. If the liner is not stretched in just so, wrinkles can settle into the liner and there they remain. What do you have for cove going from the bottom sand up the side?
    They put dust all around the bottom borders. The sand and the dust have been packed (with a machine).


    Quote Originally Posted by The Mermaid Queen
    Your pool is just barely a month old... any recourse with the installer?

    Are they wrinkles (liner comes up into the pool) or cracks (valley in the sand)? (don't know that it matters
    The liner does not come up into the pool. They are valleys in the sand and the liner is very tight in the valley. You cannot pinch the liner.

    Should I consider those cracks a problem?
    Don
    SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter
    Pentair Intelliflow pump
    Pentair SWG
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Well FWIW, I have lived with the tunnels since I got my pool and it has not been a problem. Dirt settles in them, but it is not a problem for brushing and vacuuming. Mine are about 1/8 to 1/4 inch deep and not as extensive as yours, however.

    Over the years, the bottom of my pool has gotten some larger divots in the bottom around the edges and some are a pain when brushing. But those came long after installation. This is FL and the sand is always settling. I sometimes wish I gotten the foam underlay, but I have read there are negatives to that, too.

    The dust they put down might have been an herbicide. That is what I remember from my installation, but I'm pretty sure they put it all over the whole area.
    Sue

    18' round Sharkline Matrix AGP / 8600 Gal. / sand filter / Aqua Trol SWG
    Pool owner since 2001. Thanks to TFP for helping me convert off Baquacil after six years!

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    krcossin's Avatar
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    On a fresh install (not a pool or liner replacement), the virgin ground most likely has worms living there prior to your new construction. I put in a new AG this year and had a bad liner, replaced it within a week and found very similar "cracks" on the opposite side of where the liner had torn. I re-broomed the sand, some are back, not nearly as bad. I was amazed to see the worms under the original liner thinking how much weight from water pressure must be on the sand and they just keep on tunneling like it's no big deal.
    2007 - 24' AG Doughboy Desert Spring dished 1.5', with DB Power Pak II-1hp pump, DB Sequel I Plus DE, Hayward H-Series Heater 100k + 8gal LQ.

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    As i can see, I'm not the only one with valleys (cracks) at the bottom of the pool. However, I'm surprised to see that those cracks are not more common than that to AG pool owners.

    Is it possible that the bottom of an AG pool stays flat and almost perfect? I would like if AG pool owners would post here to say how are their pool bottom (cracks/wrinkles or not)? Just to give an idea if the problem is common or not
    Don
    SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter
    Pentair Intelliflow pump
    Pentair SWG
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BIC
    As i can see, I'm not the only one with valleys (cracks) at the bottom of the pool. However, I'm surprised to see that those cracks are not more common than that to AG pool owners.

    Is it possible that the bottom of an AG pool stays flat and almost perfect? I would like if AG pool owners would post here to say how are their pool bottom (cracks/wrinkles or not)? Just to give an idea if the problem is common or not
    My liner does have a few wrinkles on the bottom, but not cracks. It's 16 months old. The wrinkles protrude up about 1/16". The sides are as smooth as a baby's bottom. My previous liner was badly wrinkled, not only in size, but in number (after 6 years). When it was replaced, the guy told us that the wrinkles were caused from bad chemistry. I believed that at the time, but now I'm not so sure.
    Poor Man's Pool
    Doughboy 18 ft round above ground
    7600 gal with center drain
    Pentair sand filter, 1 HP pump
    50 ppm borates
    "I know just enough to be dangerous"
    Pool Calc Ver 1.41 (Excel)

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Casey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIC
    I would like if AG pool owners would post here to say how are their pool bottom (cracks/wrinkles or not)? Just to give an idea if the problem is common or not
    I just installed a 24 ft pool in June.
    Let me tell you, it wasn't the easiest thing I've ever done and certainly not the hardest but never the less, I was cussing!

    I installed wall pad, happy bottom lalala, and pool cove. I used (I should save blew up) my hubby's shopvac to suck the air and wrinkles out of shell behind the liner. Before I get to far ahead of myself, I packed and leveled with 3" of sand that was wet and previously used for my older 24' that was taken down for this one. I even had extra.

    I was determined to not have a wrinkle in the liner and pulled that sucka tight as I could to prevent them. I do however have a few wrinkles that are hard to see about an inch long and 2 divits. I had more wrinkles in my old pool verses this one and my dad helped put that one up. I did this one on my own with some help from the kids, hubby and bestest friend.

    On a scale of 1-10, I give my pool a 9 because it's still standing and has very few bottom problems!

    I also couldn't be happier with the floor pad! I have no foot prints and even left the kids play in it as soon as the hose went in it! They were slipping and sliding, falling over and having a good ole time and still no bad wrinkles.
    A pic of shopvac in use to suck air and wrinkles out (NOTE HUGE dent from wall callapse)

    Here are the kiddies at play...
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Good work Mama G.,

    They team that installed mine was leaded by a guy that has benn installed pool for at least 10 years. He did use sand and stone dust. He did compact the whole area of the pool. He also did use a shopvac to to suck the air and wrinkles out of shell behind the liner. they seemed to be very good at installing pool (after 10 years ), but I still cannot rxplain all those canyons (not wrinkles) on the bottom of the pool.

    I called the store where I bought my pool and they didn't call me back yet (wekend I guess). I think that all those cracks (canyon) will not damage the pool on a long term, but it is very disappointing to see the bottom full of cracks after only a month.

    I have asked around and people think it is not going to damage the lyner of the pool, what do you think? It is annoying to know it's there, but what I want to know is "is it going to damage the vinyl liner"?

    Thanks for the feed back Mama
    Don
    SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter
    Pentair Intelliflow pump
    Pentair SWG
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Casey's Avatar
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    I think it's more of an eye sore if you will than damaging to the liner. That's what MaMa thinks.

    I looked at your pics and to be honest, I'd paddle those boys! It almost looks like the liner wasn't pulled smooth enough and once the water weight was heavy enough, the wrinkles/canyons settled in and got bigger. (They look like wrinkles to me. Are they sunk in like divits, if they are sunk in, it probably wasn't packed where these canyons are.) I would definately complain for the amount of money you probably paid for this pool and installation, I'd be HOT!

    Dad always said if you want something done right, DO IT YOURSELF! So I did.

    You could probly DIY in a few years if the pool place says No MORE Deals. I'm almost expecting to hear that from them... I sure hope not for your sanity.

    Thanks for the compliments on my pool. It was a YOU KNOW WHAT to do but I loved every minute of it! It took me 4 days to complete. The neighbor said I should go into business. HA! I'll stick to my day job.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Casey's Avatar
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    See, this pic looks like a wrinkle to me. A BIG ONE!

    I would have shut the hose off at the 1st sign of that and worked that wrinkle out before the pool water got too deep. I think anything over 4" and you ain't moven it!
    I can feel your disappointment as I type this!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  15. Back To Top    #15
    They are not wrinkles, they are sunk in (cracks). I have ZERO wrinkles (liner comes up into the pool) in the pool, but a lot of those cracks (canyon) all over the bottom.
    Don
    SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter
    Pentair Intelliflow pump
    Pentair SWG
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Casey's Avatar
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    Reguardless of what they are, I'd ask to have them fix it no matter what the cost to THEM would be. That's just me though.

    Those canyons would get to me just because I want the best ya know?
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MaMa G.
    Reguardless of what they are, I'd ask to have them fix it no matter what the cost to THEM would be. That's just me though.

    Those canyons would get to me just because I want the best ya know?
    I can hear them already:

    Me: I have cracks on the bottom of my pool, could you fix it?

    Store: Does it leak sir? Does it leak?

    Me: No, it doesn't leak, but it's not normal.

    Store: It does not leak, so it is not consider a problem. Come back if it leaks.

    BIC
    Don
    SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter
    Pentair Intelliflow pump
    Pentair SWG
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Casey's Avatar
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    Tell him his instalation of the floor bottom is unsatisfactory and is an eyesore for those who come to swim in the pool because it is SOOOO noticeable and NOT normal for a bottom that should be smooth (without canyons). I would also send him the pics of your liner that you posted here and ask him if he would settle for something like this in his back yard?! If he still gives you a run around, then I'd call the BBB and that my friend doesn't stand for Bleach, Borax and Baking Soda.

    Once you ask him to replace and fix the bottom and he refuses, then I'd call the BBB and I would let him know about it too.

    I wish ya luck and I'm so glad I did my instalation myself.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  19. Back To Top    #19
    I called the store again this morning. They said that the guy doing the installation is on Holidays, he will be back next week. He will come and look at my pool next week. Cannot wait to see what they will say

    BIC
    Don
    SW Florida
    10,000 gal in ground concrete pool
    Pentair Cartridge filter
    Pentair Intelliflow pump
    Pentair SWG
    using BBB for pool chemistry/Lamotte ColorQ tester for daily testing

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Hmmm, a pool installer on vacation in August? sounds fishy to me! Make sure you call them back at the beginning of the week to set up/confirm your appointment, or he might not show...

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
    Handy Links: PoolMath, TF-100 Test Kit, Pool School, CYA-Chlorine Chart
    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

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