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Thread: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

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    Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    I Have a 16x32 IG pool built in 1984. It has steel walls and a vermiculite base. I needed a new liner so a local pool contractor who has been in the business for 30 years came over and measured for the new one. The day came to install it and when they pulled the old liner there was a 2” crack about 10’ centered in the safety ledge of the diving board side. He said he needed to fill with vermiculite and that’s what he proceeded to do. It took him about ten minutes to fill in the crack, and he was being very careful because he said he didn’t want the wall to fall in. Then the new liner was installed and filled with water after being filled the pressure pushed in a big area about 5 ‘ long and 1’ tall in the sloped section .
    It basically looks like a 5’ foot tall person was picked up horizontally and thrown against it leaving a big dent. The pool contractor said that there is nothing he can do. He doesn’t deal with vermiculite and I would need to get someone else to fix it. He claims he is not liable for anything because water had washed out the sand behind the vermiculite base. I feel like when he saw the crack if he was not experienced with this he needed say “ alright this needs to be fixed but I can’t do it, we should get an expert over here to assess the situation before the liner is installed and $700.00 worth of water put into it. Also if the wall was coming up maybe he should not have put the vermiculite patch in there because now its holding the top part out and it can’t settle back in. I don’t know. I am no expert. I did speak with another pool professional that builds and installs pools and he said if he sees any cracks or anything in a vermiculite base when he is installing a new liner in an older pool he will take a sledge to them and find all the soft spots and repair them as needed before he installs the liner.
    My question is: Is the contractor who installed the pool liable for anything in this situation? or is it an “ act of nature”. He charged 2200 to replace the liner and I’m guessing he made about $1700 profit in less than six hours time. It took him 2.5 hours to install, 1 hour to measure, and im figuring time for him to order the liner. He had 2 guys with him during the install for 2.5 hours but they didn’t know what they were doing and he was probably paying them $8/hr.
    If I was him I wouldn’t feel comfortable making my normal profit that I make on every pool if this happened to my customer. Should he at least give back some of his profit? To go towards fixing the pool, which includes draining it, pulling the liner back and having a pool builder rebuild the wall for $2000.
    Any input on my situation is greatly appreciated.
    Thank you
    16x32 19,000 gallons vinyl liner IG with vermiculite base, 2 jets, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, Hayward s-200 sand filter with Pentair superflo 3/4 HP single speed pump , liquid chlorine.

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    I'm having the same problems but worse. I held back $500 since it the walls were caving in before his guys were finished. He told me to and that he'd be back to fix it when it was drier. This started in Jan of this year. My pool looks like the Grand Canyon and he wont return my calls. I reported him to the BBB, State Licensing Board, Attorney General and a lawyer is involved. I want it fixed or my money back. He put it in after I got a 1/2 of rain the day before and the yard was saturated before this. I live 5 houses down from a 'lake' also. I don't know where you're at but Louisiana has high ground water. Let me know how it goes.
    Rosemary

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    Yeah, It's a hard situation to be in. I kind of feel like there was nothing he could do about it and it is something I will have to deal with. I guess the only place he screwed up is not getting an expert to look at it before he put the new liner in. I don't know if this would have warranted me holding back money. Some people would think it's not his fault and he didn't know. Another thing that really bothered me was that after all of this happened he had the audacity to charge me an extra $75 for his 10 minute patch job on the crack. I was so busy doing other things that i didn't look at the receipt, he told me what I owed and I wrote him a check. It wasn't until later that I looked at the receipt and realized what the extra charge was. It's like what reputable business owner would tack on another charge after he knew I was sick about what happened. It's like adding insult to injury. Needless to say, I have not been impressed with this guy and would not recommend him to anyone. What are they going to do about your pool?
    Mitch
    16x32 19,000 gallons vinyl liner IG with vermiculite base, 2 jets, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, Hayward s-200 sand filter with Pentair superflo 3/4 HP single speed pump , liquid chlorine.

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    He finally put in a response to BBB.Said the ground water damaging the liner wasn't his fault. I beg to differ. If someone was going to put in a liner, and they've dealt with this ground water before, why would they even THINK of putting one in when we'd had 2.5 inches of rain in that month, and 1/2 inch the day before. His time is up with the lawyer too. Guess I'll be visiting him to see what good my options are.

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    Heckpools's Avatar
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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    mtw826 - Im very sorry for the situation you are having but i have to say it really isnt his fault.. He, nor anyone else can control what is happening under the pool floor. That being said, i do think he was wrong for just saying he cant fix it and walk away like it was no big deal.

    I myself am no expert when it comes to fixing pool floors, but if that happpened to one of my pools while installing a liner, I would bring somone in who could fix it, and just explain it was going to be extra $$. Taking your check and turning his back wasnt cool. But to answer your question, it wasnt his fault, nor is he liable. He just didnt act professional about it, which in my book gives you every right to be upset.. Customer service shouldnt end once he gets paid.
    [center:3gj9kdnn]Matt Heck
    "HECK OF A POOL SERVICE LLC"
    Serving Ocean co. NJ
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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    Heckpools- Thanks for the info. This is pretty much what I figured I just needed to hear it from another pool professional. As the days go by I think I am learning to live with it and will just get it fixed next time I need a new liner.

    This will be confirmed though when the water warms up and I am able to go down there with a mask and see how bad it really is. I have been told that it may not be as bad as I think and that the water will magnify the indentation.

    It's just unfortunate that this was not fixed when the liner was out. You would think that with almost 30 years expierence the guy installing would have reccommended that it be fixed before he continue.

    Next time I will have a pool builder install the liner rather than a liner installer. This way when problems happen they can fix it. Live and learn I guess.

    Once again thanks for your input.
    16x32 19,000 gallons vinyl liner IG with vermiculite base, 2 jets, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, Hayward s-200 sand filter with Pentair superflo 3/4 HP single speed pump , liquid chlorine.

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    Pic of my problem.
    16x32 19,000 gallons vinyl liner IG with vermiculite base, 2 jets, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, Hayward s-200 sand filter with Pentair superflo 3/4 HP single speed pump , liquid chlorine.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    No picture...
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    Sorry Had to resize. What does everyone think? Is this something you could live with until the next liner install?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16x32 19,000 gallons vinyl liner IG with vermiculite base, 2 jets, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, Hayward s-200 sand filter with Pentair superflo 3/4 HP single speed pump , liquid chlorine.

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    From the picture, it looks like the slope lost support from behind it. That lost support could be as much as 6-12" in from the slope material. The installer can only fix what he sees, and that was the crack you said he filled. When the water was added, the area came under pressure and collapsed. The installer had no way of knowing the lost support area was there.

    If this happened on one of my jobs, I would charge for the repair if that was what the homeowner wanted. If there are no impingements like pointed gravel, I would leave it until the next liner.

    Your guess for the install with the new liner is way off. Liners cost the most, not the installation charge.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    Ugh - I am so sorry. I just had a new liner put in and I was out of town (unfortunately just bad timing) when they put it in - I was having a lot of other work done too and all their schedules had to coordinate, so I couldn't ask the installer to wait until I got back. I really wish I'd been there because I would have inspected the floor before they installed to make sure the patches were sufficient - turns out they left a lot of indentions. With mine it is only really noticeable when you're standing on/in one, or at night when the pool light is on. I just figured surely they will patch everything so it is perfectly smooth - wrong. And this is a company we've used for all our pool repairs, they've got one of the highest ratings on Angie's List.

    I've asked myself several times - can I live with these indentions? Is it worth the $$$ to get them to come back and fix it now that my water is perfect? I guess that's a question we all have to answer for ourselves - if the problem is cosmetic instead of structural. For me, it is not worth it unless I could get the installer to pay for the loss of water, chemicals, etc - not likely! We are on a well so we had to get 60% of the water trucked in, and I'm sure we'd probably elect to go 100% if we had to refill.

    I wish you the best, whatever you decide to do. It is a pretty crummy feeling when you have that beautiful new liner in and the bottom is not what you'd hoped.
    18x36 IG Vinyl, 8.5 deep, 28K, Hayward C4025 SwimClear Filter, Hayward SP2607X10 Super Pump 1HP

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    PoolGuyNJ- First thanks for your input. The only reason I thought he could be responsible is because 2 days before the liner install the pool was full and the pressure wasn’t pushing it in then. I think when the water was drained, that wall may have buckled inward and this was shown by the crack and if the wall came out a little bit it would mean there is a pocket behind it of air once the crack was filled. Kind of hard to explain my logic but maybe you understand. Don’t get me wrong I am not the kind of guy that is going to try to sue him over this, I don’t have time for that, I just simply was curious if this could have been prevented. I will include a picture of the crack. How much does a 20 mil 16x32 liner cost with 8 ft. deep end? The liner was ordered from Total vinyl products. As you said it was just a guess by me. I figured the liner was less than $500 because that was the deposit he wanted.

    Ashbourne- Sorry to hear about your situation, It is not fun to spend so much money to get a new liner and end up with problems.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16x32 19,000 gallons vinyl liner IG with vermiculite base, 2 jets, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, Hayward s-200 sand filter with Pentair superflo 3/4 HP single speed pump , liquid chlorine.

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Question about new liner and problems ensuing.

    The reason the wall didn't buckle before was the water in the pool held it in place. I am willing to bet that there was water behind it, possibly leaking from the skimmer area over a period of time. This washed away a lot of soil, well before the pool was drained. I would bet there is little behind the steel wall too. I would bet it will happen again at the next liner change or sooner if the root of the problem is fixed. It won't be cheap to fix. You're going to lose some concrete too.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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