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Thread: In floor cleaner with no returns

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    In floor cleaner with no returns

    I'm having a Paramount PV3 system installed and as a result, PB is not planning on installing any extra return lines but instead all water will return through the in floor pop ups. Good or bad and why?
    20'x34' gunite pool, 7' raised spa, Wet Edge Primera, VS3050 pump, 2x whisperflo pump for water features and in-floor cleaner, CC520 Cartridge filter, Pentair 400k btu heater, Intellichlor IC40, Paramount PV3, Easytouch8

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: In floor cleaner with no returns

    This is a fairly common setup, though it isn't ideal. In-floor systems usually need to run at a higher pressure than ordinary returns do. High pressure means more electricity and lower water flow. Typically, the in-floor system doesn't need to be on all the time to get it's job done. So it would be possible to have both an in-floor system and normal returns and switch between them and save electricity. To make use of that you would need an automation system and more total plumbing, so noticeable up front costs, to save money on electricity in the long run.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: In floor cleaner with no returns

    In floor will be on a booster pump so when booster pump is off, water will be returned through the in floor system but at a lower pressure so heads will still pop up I presume but won't have the flow required to clean.

    I would be more concerned if the in floor breaks in the future (hopefully a long time in the future) and I need to use the in floor heads as just regular returns how that would be done. Can the heads be replaced by just a regular return if needed? DW always makes fun of me for thinking of these long term scenarios but as an engineer I can't help myself.
    20'x34' gunite pool, 7' raised spa, Wet Edge Primera, VS3050 pump, 2x whisperflo pump for water features and in-floor cleaner, CC520 Cartridge filter, Pentair 400k btu heater, Intellichlor IC40, Paramount PV3, Easytouch8

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: In floor cleaner with no returns

    BAD!

    Mine is set up similarly (I have wall returns, but they're one of my "zones"), and it's a huge pain. If it were me, I would have the PB install wall returns, and have them plumbed separately from the in-floor system with a 3-way valve sending flow either to the in-floor heads or the wall returns. I wish I could use only my wall returns, and such a setup would make that possible.

    Why a booster pump? I don't think that's necessary. Your VS pump will have plenty of power, and you could automate it entirely with the easytouch (i think). You'd just have to run it at higher speed.

    I hope that makes sense. I hate how my system is set up!
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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    Re: In floor cleaner with no returns

    PB saw the light and added 3 separate returns. They are not a zone on the in-floor system.

    Reason for the booster pump is Paramount didn't believe the 4x160 would be enough with the solar system I plan to install at some point.

    You can see 1 of the returns and some of the crazy in-floor plumbing here:
    20'x34' gunite pool, 7' raised spa, Wet Edge Primera, VS3050 pump, 2x whisperflo pump for water features and in-floor cleaner, CC520 Cartridge filter, Pentair 400k btu heater, Intellichlor IC40, Paramount PV3, Easytouch8

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: In floor cleaner with no returns

    Quote Originally Posted by mud
    PB saw the light and added 3 separate returns. They are not a zone on the in-floor system.

    Good! I'm envious...

    Reason for the booster pump is Paramount didn't believe the 4x160 would be enough with the solar system I plan to install at some point.

    Hopefully some of the hydraulics folks will comment, but I have a hard time believing that VS pump wouldn't be able to handle it. How many heads per zone will you have?
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: In floor cleaner with no returns

    3-5 heads per zone.

    20'x34' gunite pool, 7' raised spa, Wet Edge Primera, VS3050 pump, 2x whisperflo pump for water features and in-floor cleaner, CC520 Cartridge filter, Pentair 400k btu heater, Intellichlor IC40, Paramount PV3, Easytouch8

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: In floor cleaner with no returns

    Oh, I recognize that from another thread... Your pool is going to be great!

    I have a 1.5 SFHP pump, also with 3-5 heads/zone. The VS is a 3.95 SFHP pump (I think). Even with solar, that seems like more than enough. On the drawing it states 60 gpm @ 70' of head; according to the chart posted in this thread, it looks like the VS would hit that at about 3000 rpm.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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