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Thread: Test Results for brand new fill

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    Test Results for brand new fill

    I am learning to correctly care for my pool..in the past we have relied on the pool store to do it..but they never really taught us..so I am thrilled to find this wonderful forum!

    We just drained and refilled our pool with well water. I poured most of a huge jug of bleach (182 oz) into the water as it filled yesterday, but it took about 2 days to completely fill. I had not added any other chemicals. The pool store did my test today as I have not yet received my test kit that you recommend. I will put the current numbers and then the "ideal" numbers the pool store recommends in parenthesis.

    I put the numbers in the pool calculator and via those recommendations added the recommended 195 oz bleach, approx 85 oz Ph Minus from Walmart (Is that the same as dry acid?) Now I need to add stabilizer, can I just sprinkle it around or do I have to find a "sock" as recommended in pool school? If so, can I use a real sock ?

    Temperature 80

    Saturation Index 1.1 (-.3-.3)

    TDS not tested

    CYA 24 (30-200)

    Total Chlorine 0.5 (1-3)

    Free Chlorine 0 (1-3)

    pH 8.2 (7.2-7.6)

    Tot. Alkalinity 168 (they do not give an ideal here)

    Adj Total Alk 161 (125-150)

    Tot. Hardness 323 (175-225)

    Copper not tested

    Iron not tested (I asked about this and they said we do not have a problem with iron in the water in our area)

    Manganese no (no)

    Recommendations:
    pH: add 4.75 lb of pH decreaser

    Stabilizer: Add 3 lbs of Chlorine Stabilizer (They told me before to add 8 lbs w/o testing..boy am I glad I tested instead..thanks!)

    Calcium Hardness: Add 2.5 qts of Simplicity Scale and Stain Control (I did not buy this..isn't total hardness a different test than calcium hardness??)

    Oxidizer: add two bags of Breakout 35 (to boost free chlorine residual and/or eliminate combined chlorine.

    Use Simplicity Filter & Cartridge Cleaner to clean your filter.

    Regular maintenance:
    Add 2 lbs of Crystal Clear Multi-Shock weekly

    Add 19 oz of Algae Terminator Initally
    Add 4 oz of Algae Terminator weekly

    Add 7 oz Simplicity Natural Enzyme Treatment weekly to break down undesirable contaminants


    I did not buy any chemicals at the pool store. I do have Metal Free and Phos Free that they recommend I add on startup, should I put them in?

    In our area we tend to have high pH..especially after it rains. I usually end up using a lot of pH minus to maintain pH.
    I have never used bleach before..I have used it twice in two days now and have splashed it on my shirt today..ruined..any tips for keeping this from happening?

    Thanks so much for any help and recommendations!
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I am not at all a fan of either Metal Free or Phos Free. Phos Free is almost always a waste of money, and Metal Free is not a very good sequestrant, and besides you probably don't need a sequestrant.

    Our Recommended Levels are rather different than the ones the pool store told you.

    My suggestions:

    Lower PH to 7.2.
    Raise CYA to between 40 and 50.
    Raise FC to 6 to start with and after that based on your CYA level.
    CH (total hardness) is fine.
    TA should be brought down, but you can do that slowly. Simply lower the PH to 7.2 every time it gets to 7.8 and the TA will come down slowly over time.

    There is no need to most of the products they are trying to sell you.

    Put CYA in a sock, yes a normal sock or stocking, and then put that in the skimmer. Then don't backwash for a week. If not backwashing is going to be a problem, hang the sock in front of a return instead.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    Thanks that helps so much! I got the CYA in an old sock and sort of curved it around the side and top of the skimmer basket so that debris can still get in there. I guess I will have to check it often to make sure it doesn't get clogged. I think this is helping keep that white cloudy stuff from happening when the pool is first opened..I never knew what it was before. The pool is really pretty clear..not perfect yet, but I am amazed at how well it is looking.

    I have a question. I tested yesterday before the pool was completely filled and got a pH of 7.2 Today, with the pool almost completely filled, the pool store got a pH of 8.2..so I added pH minus per directions in the pool calculator. I tested again and got a pH of 6.8..so I am wondering if my test kit could be inaccurate..or if the pool store might have made a mistake? I am a little worried that I lowered it too much.

    Free Chlorine test is more yellow than the top color, which is 3, so I guess that is good?

    Should I run the filter 24/7 while the stabilizer is in the sock?

    Thank you so much for your help
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I tested again and got a pH of 6.8..so I am wondering if my test kit could be inaccurate..or if the pool store might have made a mistake?
    While it's impossible to be sure, I would trust your testing over the pool store. You can always get a third test or have them test it again but the normal circumstance is for you to test more accurately than the pool store......sad but true.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    Dang..should have asked before I added the pH minus. Should I add some pH plus to bring it back up? I think my target is really 7.2 because my T/A is a little high.
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    If you drained the pool completely and then refilled only using bleach, your CYA levels should have been 0 or very close (just whatever may have been in any residual water in your system when you emptied it) when the pool store tested your initial water not the 24 they came up with.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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  7. Back To Top    #7
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    Don't add PH plus.
    Aerate...
    Point your eyeballs up towards the surface, and then figure out a better way to aerate (search the forum using the Google search, bottom left corner for "aeration") you can see lots of ideas, including simple fountains...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    Yeah that makes sense that the CYA should have been closer to zero. We took all the water out and power washed it.

    Aerate, okay I can do that, no problem. Will check out the other ideas too, thanks so much!
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I received my TF-100 test kit on Friday (thanks for getting it here so fast!) and here are my results:

    FC 3
    CC 0
    TC 3
    pH 7.5
    T/A 140 (was 160 two days ago, so it is coming down!)
    CH 250
    CYA <20
    Temp 82

    I put stabilizer in the skimmer last Tuesday, 5 days ago, it was completely gone out of the sock by yesterday (4 days). I tested today, but it is still showing below 20. Is it too soon to test CYA? The water gets a little bit cloudy at the very end but the black dot never disappears. I mixed the solution and let it stand several minutes, mixed again and poured slowly into the dotted vial. Hopefully did that right. I had added 3 lbs. The pool calculator says to add 126 oz by weight or 131 oz by volume of stabilizer. What is the difference between weight and volume?

    I think we might have a leak somewhere, I am losing water, barely get it filled to the rim and it is down about 3 inches the next day, about 18 hours later. This happened overnight last night...and every day I am losing some, 4-6 inches per day. How can I figure out where it is leaking? (and should I put this question on another forum thread?) It is hot here, near 90, nights are upper 60s and lower 70s. I have the pool partially covered to warm it up. I have been running the filter nearly 24-7 to aerate and bring down T/A.
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    You need to get that leak taken care of before you will be able to balance your water properly. The simplest test is to see if the water level goes down when the pump is off, or only when the pump is on. Try leaving the pump off overnight and see if the level holds.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I will leave the pump off tonight and let you know in the morning. Thanks!
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  12. Back To Top    #12
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I assume you have no visible water leak, the next step is to determine where the leak is, if it is in the plumbing, etc. Drain the water from your filter if possible (open the bleed valve so it does not act as a siphon) If you have a bottom drain turn off the shut off valve for it. Wait, if the leak is in skimmer suction line it will stop at a water level near the bottom of the skimmer, if it is in the return line the water level will stop just below the return jets, and if in the bottom drain it will stop at some level where the leak is. Once you determine which line it is in, there are professional services that can locate leaks by injecting air into the lines and listening for the bubbling through the concrete, I suspect that with as large of leak as you have you could hear the bubbling with just holding your ear to the ground. The one time I have seen it done, the professional used a nitrogen tank with a low pressure regulator and a home built adapter that would screw into the return eyeball fitting and blocking off the others one at a time (his were fancy with cut off valves and quick disconnects). I suspect you could do the same thing with a small air compressor tank with the compressor turned off for silence. In my case it turned out to be a major leak (elbow fitting blown out) the leak was too big to be detected this way, so the guy added a second fitting to adapter water hose into the eyeball upstream from the nitrogen tank. The professional leak detector was not cheap $400 including travel time from 90 miles away, he may have given a discount on travel time as he had another job at someone elses pool about 15 miles away.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I turned the pump off overnight and lost 3/4 inch of water (exactly) in 12 hours. Does that tell me more about what to do next?

    Thank you Ike for your directions. I am wondering too if we didn't connect something right or left something off since this is our first year to open the pool ourselves. There were a lot of little things to screw in and we had a few left over...my husband says there are always extras.
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  14. Back To Top    #14
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    3/4 of an inch is no where near as much as you were loosing with the pump on, but it still indicates a leak. That suggests that the leak is on the pressure side of the plumbing below the water line, presumably in the return pipes, though that isn't for sure. Look for damp patches around the outside of the pool deck.

    If you forgot to replace a drain plug there would be a very obvious spray of water when the pump was on. You couldn't miss it for very long.

    Leak detection can be quite difficult. The next step is to let the pool drain down and see how low the water goes, which will give you the height of the leak. But you should also think about the possibility of hiring a professional leak detection company.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I turned on the pump again, nearly 3 hours ago, just went out to check it and found that there was nothing coming out of the jets..and the pump sounded funny. I turned it off, removed the cover on the filter basket and found the water was boiling hot! What in the WORLD is going on?

    I will check all the things you said above..it rained about a quarter inch right after I checked water level earlier, so must wait till things dry out.

    Thank you Jason for all your help. We may have to have the pool guys come in and find the leak : (
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    Is it possible the pump was sucking air? They can do this even when there is a couple of inches of water left in the skimmer as a whirlpool forms when the pump is running and primed.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    I don't think the skimmer could have been sucking air. The water is only down 2 1/4 inches..the skimmer has lots and lots of water in it. I can always hear when it sucks air..it is loud. When I found nothing coming out thru the jets, there was no water moving at all..it was boiling in the filter basket..steam came out!
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    My pump has been off for an hour now, the pressure is almost 35 dpi and the water is not going out of the filter basket area like it normally does when the pump is off and the lid off. Something must be clogged, right? Could that be connected to the water loss issue?
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    The timing does make it sound likely, although I can't think of what it might be. Did you by chance turn off a valve that might be part of the return flow?
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Test Results for brand new fill

    No I didn't turn anything off except the electrical to the pump. I called the pool store and the guy told me to put fresh water in the filter basket, even with it mostly full of hot water, cover and try backwash with all valves open. This worked. So at least the filter is running again. I scheduled the pool guys to come out and find our leak. The guy on the phone said it could be underground plumbing Sounding expensive. I can go ahead and use it as I was, filling it up when it gets low though. Thank you guys so much for trying to help me figure this out!

    I guess I should not waste stabilizer when the pool might have to be drained..and because it is leaking out..so is it best to just keep an eye on chlorine levels and pH for now?
    18x33 ft oval, 23,500 gallon in ground concrete pool with metal (stainless steel?) sides (caulked at the seams), built in the 70s, 3 ft shallow end, 8 ft deep end, 1 main drain, 1 skimmer, manual vacuum from skimmer.
    Pac-Fab Sand Filter: Flow Rate 60 gpm, 325 lb silica sand, max pressure 50 psi
    Sta-Rite dura-glas Pump, (self priming) 1 hp, 3450 RPM

    7th season pool owner, first season to ditch the pool guys!

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