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Thread: copper in's and out's

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    copper in's and out's

    First post here...hello everyone...

    Looking for a little advice on moving pool equipment. The previous home owner I believe installed the pool with pump and filter 6-8ft or so from pool edge at corner of house, and surrounded it with 6ft wooden fence, probably to avoid noise and visual eyesore. I tore it out, because it had rotted over time. The pool deck itself near the equipment (which sits on its own pad exclusive from deck) is somewhat circular and not big enough to be usable for outdoor kitchen/entertainment area. We want to add to the sq footage, but to do so need to move the equipment about 10-12 ft along the same exterior wall, which requires re-routing the pump/filter supply and return lines. This will clear the area and allow us to pour new slab and extend deck. I had a contractor out to take a look, and he suggested breaking the equipment pad, digging down about 6-8 in along pipes, cut into them, elbow, and run them horizontally in shallow trench the distance we need, then bury with sub-base material and pour new concrete on top to form new pad and small "protective" pathway along exterior wall to our new equipment location. Does this seem correct? Both skimmer/supply and return lines are copper. Is there anything to watch-out for in terms of these metal pipes? Another contractor mentioned he stays away from using copper lines in his projects. I have sweated copper before, and don't see it being too tricky, but would like some feedback if there is something I should especially pay attention to (wrapping, bonding, etc). We are using a 3/4 HP pump, 60 sq ft D.E. filter, and may eventually install solar on roof. The electrical is 120V. There is also an old pool heater that sits on the pad, but is disconnected and basically ready for the recycle heap. I would like to use that natural gas line for a bbq grill. Can that line be extended below the proposed "protective" path/slab like the copper supply and return lines? Does it need to be deeper? Is black pipe okay to use if wrapped with tape? Can we split with T-joint so it can supply bbq grill and pool heater if we decide to add later?

    There is also a smaller copper tap line extending from the larger return line that also feeds down into the current pad. I don't know what that line is for. The main return line does have a valve after the T-joint that sprouts the smaller line. In other words, shutting the valve would still allow water to flow throw the smaller line. The only thought I had was to the pool slide...but that line is actually fed by pool-fill line. Thoughts? There is no spa, hot tub or other water feature/equipment in the yard. We have three return inlets to pool, but only the two furthest ones from pump/filter seem to be active.

    I know this is a long post, but any help/tips/direction would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks...

    markv
    10,500 gal; Hayward S244T sand filter GPM/FT 20; Intelliflo Vairiable Speed pump; 3/4 hp PAC FAB Challenger pump; IG; plaster ; CircuPool RJ60 SWG; Polaris 280 pool sweep

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: copper in's and out's

    Welcome to TFP

    Sounds like you have a good handle on the move. You do have some valid concerns.
    Yes, you do need to be concerned with maintaining the bonding if you use non-metallic pipe to extend the plumbing.
    Copper pipe won't be a problem as long as you maintain your pool properly. Now that you've found this place that won't be an issue if you follow the advice here.
    You need to check with your local athorities about the gaas line. You don't want to follow the advice here about that because we don't know the codes where you live.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: copper in's and out's

    With copper pipe you need to be very careful to make sure the PH never goes below 7.0. Otherwise the low PH will etch copper out of the pipes and eventually deposit on the pool as unsightly stains.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: copper in's and out's

    I have seen flakey scale on walls...rough scrubbing breaks it loose. Is this the copper leaching from pipes? Is there permanent damage to the lines? Pipes getting thinner?

    We are at a point where we are seriously considering re-plaster next year. This year is focused on deck and equipment move...next year re-plaster. The finish looks old, steps look weathered. Just seems like it is time to re-plaster, especially when I find loose plaster at bottom of pump. Not sure how old the pool is, but think it will make it to next year.

    As for bonding, I am curious on best way to approach. Should we be clamping copper wire to supply and return lines, then to ground in electrical box? Should we sink a new grounding post near equipment? Any more info on bonding, please pass along. Right now all we have is a grounding wire from pump to box.

    Also, any idea on that small return line I mentioned in first post?

    Thanks...

    markv
    10,500 gal; Hayward S244T sand filter GPM/FT 20; Intelliflo Vairiable Speed pump; 3/4 hp PAC FAB Challenger pump; IG; plaster ; CircuPool RJ60 SWG; Polaris 280 pool sweep

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: copper in's and out's

    Rock like scale on the walls of the pool is almost always calcium scaling, nothing to do with the copper pipes. Scale usually occurs when the PH is too high. The copper is at risk when the PH is too low.

    Bonding and grounding are unrelated. You don't need to connect the bonding wire to ground (in the US). The point of bonding is to connect all of the metal parts that touch the water, or that a person in the water could touch, together so that any current flows through the bonding wire, not through the people. The pipes, the pump, the heater (if you have one), metal ladders, rebar in concrete decks, metal in the pool frame, anything metal a person could touch, etc should all be connected together with #8 solid copper wire.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: copper in's and out's

    Okay...I understand. But with age of pool, not sure how we could check if "bonding" of deck rebar, pool shell rebar, etc was done. Would this be "grand-fathered" if built before "bonding" was required in pool construction? How could we ensure without tearing out complete pool deck and starting over?

    Thanks for your advcie...it's been very helpful...

    markv
    10,500 gal; Hayward S244T sand filter GPM/FT 20; Intelliflo Vairiable Speed pump; 3/4 hp PAC FAB Challenger pump; IG; plaster ; CircuPool RJ60 SWG; Polaris 280 pool sweep

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: copper in's and out's

    It varies from place to place how much of a change needs to happen before they will require the bonding to be re-tested and proven good. Still, even if there isn't a mandatory inspection, you want to bond as many things as you can, even if you can't do a perfect job.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: copper in's and out's

    Okay...will do...

    If you or anyone else has any other suggestions, please let us know...

    markv
    10,500 gal; Hayward S244T sand filter GPM/FT 20; Intelliflo Vairiable Speed pump; 3/4 hp PAC FAB Challenger pump; IG; plaster ; CircuPool RJ60 SWG; Polaris 280 pool sweep

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