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Thread: Sand filter & Pump for a 27' round -- Updated 6/1 12:01am

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    Sand filter & Pump for a 27' round -- Updated 6/1 12:01am

    I decided to do some digging about the filter that came with my used 27' round AGP and seems that it is only rated for a Max Pool Size of 12,000 gallons. Well my pool is just under 20k looks like this is going to be too small ... is that right? It's what came with it when I picked it up.

    I do have a Hayward 180T Sand Filter as well.

    Does this mean I need to be looking at a replacement filter?


    Pump wise I have a Waterco Aquarite 2HP I was going to use since I am putting the equipment 50 feet from the pool.


    LMK your thoughts.

    Thanks

    Greg


    EDITED:

    Ok so I have tracked down the following

    Hayward S244T for $285 shipped

    Hayward Matrix Power Flo 1HP 2 speed pump for $260 shipped

    Would this be a good match?
    27' x 52" Round Lomart Sandstone AGP
    ~ 18,000 Gallons
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter 300lb
    Hayward 1HP Matrix 2 Speed pump
    2" Plumbing - 50 Foot run buried 18" Deep - Widemouth skimmer and 1 return with eyeball
    Compupool CPSC24

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Waterco T450 Sand filter too small for a 27' round?

    Your pump is too big and your filter is too small, which is very common for what is supplied as part of a kit these days. As described, your setup will work, but it won't work at all well.

    I recommend using a two speed 1 HP pump and a sand filter that holds at least 300 lbs of sand.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Waterco T450 Sand filter too small for a 27' round?

    Not what I was hoping to hear.

    Is a 1HP going to be good enough to go 50 feet supply and return through at least 4-5 90 degree elbows?
    27' x 52" Round Lomart Sandstone AGP
    ~ 18,000 Gallons
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter 300lb
    Hayward 1HP Matrix 2 Speed pump
    2" Plumbing - 50 Foot run buried 18" Deep - Widemouth skimmer and 1 return with eyeball
    Compupool CPSC24

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Waterco T450 Sand filter too small for a 27' round?

    There is a pitfall here that I should explain, not all 1 HP pumps are the same. Some pumps are "full rated", while are others "max rated" or "up rated". A full rated pump is more powerful than an max/up rated pump.There are couple of ways to compare pumps, given that different companies use different terminology. One way is to look at the amp rating. Pumps with about the same amp rating tend to be about the same (though there are some exceptions here as well). Another way, if you can find the full specs, is to look at the SF (or service factor) SF times HP gives you the SFHP, which can be directly compared between different pumps. Of course, many manufacturers don't list these specs in an obvious place, so it can get a little tricky.

    When I talk about a 1 HP pump, I am referring to a full rated pump with an SFHP around 1.65, drawing around 15 amps at 115 volts.

    Now there is a second complication. Pool pumps can be low head, medium head, or high head. "Head" means the amount of resistance to flow that the pump is designed to push against. A typical above ground pump is a low head pump, designed to push against minimal resistance, typically 8 to 12 feet of hose. A typical in-ground pump is a high head pump, designed to push against substantial resistance, typically 40 to 200 feet of pipe. Just to make things more complex, occasionally medium head pumps are used in either above ground or in-ground applications, so you can't completely count on knowing which kind of pump you are talking about just by knowing if it is above ground or in-ground.

    In your situation, with 100 feet of pipe (round trip) you are going to need at least a medium head pump, and probably a high head pump.

    Given your description, I wasn't able to find out the complete specs on the 2 HP pump you have been talking about, so I can't say for sure if it is suitable or not. Perhaps someone else can find it, or maybe you can find something on the pump label that will help us identify it.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Waterco T450 Sand filter too small for a 27' round?

    Jason,

    Here is the info on the pump

    Model #2402200DU

    Aquamite Series

    110V/1ph/60Hz

    Amps 11.2 Run / 14 Max

    Greg
    27' x 52" Round Lomart Sandstone AGP
    ~ 18,000 Gallons
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter 300lb
    Hayward 1HP Matrix 2 Speed pump
    2" Plumbing - 50 Foot run buried 18" Deep - Widemouth skimmer and 1 return with eyeball
    Compupool CPSC24

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Waterco T450 Sand filter too small for a 27' round?

    Thanks. I wasn't able to find the specs on that exact model, but I did find pump curves for some smaller models in the same series, here.

    Doing some guessing about how it scales up for the larger HP units, it looks marginal, but not completely out of the question in your new situation. The head will definitely be higher than that pump is designed for, but may not be completely outside it's operating range (depending on lots of details that are quite difficult to calculate).

    You might be able to get away with using that pump, but will be well outside it's efficient operation zone. You will be much better off if you get a lower HP pump, designed to handle higher head applications.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Waterco T450 Sand filter too small for a 27' round?

    Could you make a good moderately priced recommendation (ie not the best but not the worst) please

    And do I really need a 300lb sand filter or will a 200 do the job (looks like the in-laws have a 200 I may be able to have)

    Greg

    EDIT - I do also have a Hayward Power Flo LX 1HP pump but I would be worried that a 1HP pump isn't beefy enough either for the 100 foot round trip and 20k gallons.
    27' x 52" Round Lomart Sandstone AGP
    ~ 18,000 Gallons
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter 300lb
    Hayward 1HP Matrix 2 Speed pump
    2" Plumbing - 50 Foot run buried 18" Deep - Widemouth skimmer and 1 return with eyeball
    Compupool CPSC24

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    Re: Waterco T450 Sand filter too small for a 27' round?

    Ok so I have tracked down the following

    Hayward S244T for $285 shipped

    Hayward Matrix Power Flo 1HP 2 speed pump for $260 shipped

    Would this be a good match?

    Greg
    27' x 52" Round Lomart Sandstone AGP
    ~ 18,000 Gallons
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter 300lb
    Hayward 1HP Matrix 2 Speed pump
    2" Plumbing - 50 Foot run buried 18" Deep - Widemouth skimmer and 1 return with eyeball
    Compupool CPSC24

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Sand filter & Pump for a 27' round -- Updated 6/1 12:01am

    Most AG pumps require a flooded suction since they are not self priming although there are a few exceptions. I believe that the Power Flo Matrix requires a flooded suction so the location of the pump must be at an elevation which is lower than the pool surface. This is the only way it will work properly.

    Also, the Power Flo series is considered a medium head pump and seems to support head loss of up to 50' albeit at very low flow rates. It might be wise to go with at least 2" plumbing runs so as to minimize the loss as much as possible in the long runs. The flow rate will be reduced some due to the length of pipe but I estimate that with 2" plumbing, the head loss shouldn't be more than about 38' and flow rates about 61 GPM. This is only an estimate and might vary some depending on the number of fittings that you end up having and the configuration at the pool. A few more questions:

    How many returns does the pool have and what size are eyeballs/exit ports?

    How many suction ports does the pool have?

    Will there be any other equipment at the pad? Heater, SWG, valves, etc.

    Depending on the answer to these questions, it may pay to go with 2.5" pipe.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Sand filter & Pump for a 27' round -- Updated 6/1 12:01am

    Well 2" pipe has already been cut, glued, & laid in an 18" deep trench -- so too late now.

    I will be using an SWG - Probably the Compupool CPSC36 although I would prefer the Aquatrol series but it is coming down to pricing as the cash is going way too fast on this project.

    Only the wide mouth skimmer attached to the pool and 1 return is all.

    Not sure on the size of the eyeball -- I would have to look at it but I could probably make it whatever it needed to be as the pool is being installed on Thursday.

    No plans for other things.

    Location of pump and filter will be below the level of the skimmer box and return but not below the level of the bottom of the pool.

    Thanks

    Greg
    27' x 52" Round Lomart Sandstone AGP
    ~ 18,000 Gallons
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter 300lb
    Hayward 1HP Matrix 2 Speed pump
    2" Plumbing - 50 Foot run buried 18" Deep - Widemouth skimmer and 1 return with eyeball
    Compupool CPSC24

  11. Back To Top    #11
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Sand filter & Pump for a 27' round -- Updated 6/1 12:01am

    As long as the pump is below the top of the pool, it has a flooded suction so priming is not an issue. Also, I still think you will be ok with 2" pipe and head loss should not be that bad and if I got your plumbing setup correct, then the performance should be around what I posted earlier.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Sand filter & Pump for a 27' round -- Updated 6/1 12:01am

    Thanks.

    Layout would be as follows

    [shed]
    l
    l -- This part is about 15 feet of pipe
    l
    ----------------------- (POOL)
    This part is about 35 feet


    I ordered what I posted as I was able to get next day service for $3 since I have Amazon Prime.

    Pump was more from them then elsewhere but the S244T was cheaper there.

    Install is starts Thursday at 8am so hopefully by the time I get home Thursday evening the ground will be level, and walls up. If I am lucky they will also have the liner in and rails installed. Installer already said he will need to be back on Friday for other things and then a few days later (most likely Monday) to install the skimmer box and return once the pool has filled up to near capacity.

    The kids are ridiculously excited as they have seen the outline on the ground for the new pool and of course they saw me spending Memorial Day w/e digging an 18" deep 50 foot long trench -- what a nightmare that was to do.

    Greg
    27' x 52" Round Lomart Sandstone AGP
    ~ 18,000 Gallons
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter 300lb
    Hayward 1HP Matrix 2 Speed pump
    2" Plumbing - 50 Foot run buried 18" Deep - Widemouth skimmer and 1 return with eyeball
    Compupool CPSC24

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