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Thread: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

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    Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Anybody done this with creative use of valves and/or unions at pumping station?

    My system is very simple. A couple of days ago I finally realized just how much of an energy HOG the booster pump for Polaris is. It is a 3450 rpm pump (I've been told that there are booster pump that have an even higher SFHP than mine), and I've been running it for years a minimum of 10 hours a day, year round, to keep my pool clean in our EXTREME environment. That's a lot of electricity. I'm looking to shave about $150 a month off my electric bill monthly even though the Intelliflo VF has to rev up a bit to give adequate suction. With clean filter, and main drain shut down about 1/2, connecting suction through skimmer the pump only has to get a little above 2300 rpm for good suction. As system is manual I have to go down and turn the valve by hand, which I don't like to do at night, (under deck and snakes) so I've left the main drain open last night. I didn't measure rpm last night.... will do tomorrow after I backwash.

    The dedicated pressure line for Polaris 280 is 1.5" as is all other plumbing until after valves at pumping station which is 2".

    I'm now using my Tracker 4X (Just like the POOLVERGNUEGEN - The Pool Cleaner) and it actually cleans the tiny dust better than the Polaris in much, much, much less time and doesn't stir it up on the bottom of pool. In summer most of my debris is the tiny dust, sand and silt.

    I don't want to permanently discontinue using the Polaris as I really need it in messy fall and winter with all the blowing leaves from the woods. It does the best picking up leaves and other larger plant debris of the four cleaners I have or have used in the recent past. With assistance from two Pool Skims, of course.

    Can't I just do some creative simple plumbing at pumping station so that I can switch over the return to a vac port and back. Use either valves or slip unions? When I had the Nature 2, commercial canister, a pool guy plumbed it for me so that I could take it out in winter and replace that section with one piece of pipe and a couple of 90s. The canisters kept freezing in winter even with pool water moving.

    By having a dedicated suction port I can leave the cleaner in when it is not running (which I do already) and not have to undo it and redo it at the skimmer two or three times a day. And my skimmer would remain functional the whole time.

    Even if the VF pump has to rev up some it still is less rpm than the booster pump and much more efficient.

    I'm going to do it but would like some opinions on the best way. I would love to use valves so that I could easily choose between the two cleaners and just have to change out the return fitting especially after summer storms put more plant debris in the pool than normal days.

    I already have one brand new Jandy, three way, never lube 2".

    Thanks, gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Look at the last post here:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/the-p...rk-t19616.html

    Seems POOLVERGNUEGEN is coming out with a "hybrid" cleaner that swings both ways.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    With the proper plumbing arrangement and a good selection of automated valves and system there's almost nothing that can't be accomplished. Even manually operating them is an option if you choose.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Actually, it seems to my that a 3-way Jandy valve might do the trick.....make the non-selectable port go to the return/vaccum hookup and the two selectable ports could go to the pump (for suction) and the other to the main return.

    YOu would certainly want to turn the pump off when selecting.

    I have never done this and am making this up in my mind as I type but it seems that might work.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    I'll be anxiously awaiting the verdict on this.

    I also have a cleaner line which I'm trying to plumb on my equipment pad and want maximum flexibility for future cleaners.
    Vinyl in-ground 19k gallons --------- 1 1/2 inch pipe -------- Hayward super pump 1 hp -------- Pentair DE filter FNS Plus 36 sq ft --------- Push/Pull valve --------- Rainbow #320 Chlorine Feeder

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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Actually, it seems to my that a 3-way Jandy valve might do the trick.....make the non-selectable port go to the return/vaccum hookup and the two selectable ports could go to the pump (for suction) and the other to the main return.

    YOu would certainly want to turn the pump off when selecting.

    I have never done this and am making this up in my mind as I type but it seems that might work.
    One factor that complicates this is the is a "flooded" station below grade so there have to be valves to shut off water coming and going.

    I just drew this out. It looks like I may need a 4-way.

    Do those exist?

    I may put my drawing up if I have the time. The sketch is too messy at this time.

    Unless I'm thinking wrong (very possible) I have to get water to do this via the valve:

    For booster use:

    -From booster to valve (one port)
    -From valve to dedicated "return" (one port)

    and

    For vac use:
    -From "return" making it a vac to valve (one port)
    -From valve to main pump (one port)

    BUT

    I see what you are saying but maybe more like this. Leave the Booster to dedicated return "as is" eliminating one port needed in the new valve valve. Leave the old valve in place that is a 2-way that shuts water on and off from booster and from coming back from the return.

    Then a 3-way with one going to pump, one coming from return and one going to return.

    Am I seeing this right?

    The current 2-way has valve the hose from booster going in via a reducer and fitting coming into valve, valve, then 1.5" pipe for about 12" until it goes into ground, makes an almost immediate 90 and then under the railroad tie and steps. That valve may have to be replaced to be taken out to get some working room. So I may be looking at a 4-way or two 3-ways.

    Does that sound right?

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    I agree w/ Dave; a 3-way should work. One end teed into suction side plumbing, the other into returns, and the non-selectable to cleaner port.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    I agree w/ Dave; a 3-way should work. One end teed into suction side plumbing, the other into returns, and the non-selectable to cleaner port.

    Thanks guys. I'm going to go get geared up for working on the pool, and mix up some wine coolers to clear my brain. I should post a picture of current pumping station.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by geekgranny
    mix up some wine coolers to clear my brain
    Tends to have the opposite effect on me...
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    With the proper plumbing arrangement and a good selection of automated valves and system there's almost nothing that can't be accomplished. Even manually operating them is an option if you choose.
    For now it's going to have to be manual. I won't be using every day, though, because I plan on using the vac cleaner most of summer setting Intelliflo to rev up for vacuuming. It's going to make for more backwashing but I'm willing to do that to save a $150-$200 a month in electric cost. Our water is pretty cheap but replacement of chems adds up. I haven't yet started using the Slime Bags for returning backwash water but may not be able to because of the mini "cement" factory in my filter that resists coming loose after a couple or three weeks with a couple of backwashes. That's when I have to clean the cartridges manually and soak.

    Three of the ten largest cement factories, in the US are located seven miles south of me. They mine most of the raw materials, open pit, right here. So what goes into my filter is raw materials for cement (not concrete) that holds concrete together.

    Thanks, gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Convert Dedicated Cleaner Return to Use as Vac or Pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    Quote Originally Posted by geekgranny
    mix up some wine coolers to clear my brain
    Tends to have the opposite effect on me...
    Then you just don't drink often enough.
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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