20yr old SubPanel- No GFCIs. Advice on Moving/Upgrading?

[DesertSloth]

Here's pics of what I got installed now.

I'm looking to move the box about 1' to the side, and possibly 1' down so I don't have to pigtail new wires, and just keep the existing wires in tact. I'd like to cut the copper/emt tubes, and connect electrical PVC pipe w/ 90's to the new location. I'd also like to bring this up to code with GFCI/GFI protection. I don't need the timer or pump switch in the existing box, so I'll yank those out completely. If I ever add any additional components/lights, it will be LED/Low Voltage.

Main Panel-
- Double Pole 20amp for pump, single pole 15amp for pool light. I don't see anything for the outlet on the subpanel...

SubPanel-
- Pool lighting coming in from Copper pipe direct to switch
- EMT carrying the main power from main breaker box, with an outlet on the exterior of the box.

Questions:
1) If I can bend/but the existing copper and emt tubes, what connectors do I use to join with electrical PVC pipe?
2) Do I replace the breakers at the main panel with GFCI's? Or leave those and add additional GFCI breakers into the box?
3) Is it cheaper to buy a new box that comes with breakers (if there is such a thing)? Or, if I need to add breakers to the subpanel, is there a better box to buy that can accommodate that easier?
4) Any specifics on grounding or making this as safe as possible?

Thank you for your help!

 

[ajw22]

1) If I can bend/but the existing copper and emt tubes, what connectors do I use to join with electrical PVC pipe?

Dunno. Never did that before.

2) Do I replace the breakers at the main panel with GFCI's? Or leave those and add additional GFCI breakers into the box?

You can replace the breakers with GFCI breakers.

3) Is it cheaper to buy a new box that comes with breakers (if there is such a thing)? Or, if I need to add breakers to the subpanel, is there a better box to buy that can accommodate that easier?

All you have now is a switch box. And once you remove the timer and toggle switches it will just be a junction box. Problem with that is you lose the "maintenance disconnect" that is required for the pump.

If you want a real subpanel you will need to run #10 wire from a 40 Amp CB in the main panel to the subpanel. Then install GFCI CBs in the sub panel.

4) Any specifics on grounding or making this as safe as possible?

I think this is safer then you think. You just need the pump 20A CB to be GFCI. And not having GFCI for the pump is not as big of a safety issue as needing GFCI for the lights.

Is that outlet in the box GFCI? Are you sure your light wiring does not run through the LOAD section of the GFCI outlet? I think that is what I see.

 

[DesertSloth]

Yes, the outlet is GFI (even tho it looks to be 20+yrs old, I need to test it). It appears to be pigtailed with the lights. So that's ok to do? Or is it better to run the main breaker as GFI for the light/outlet?

Also- If I install a GFI in the main panel- should I go with a single or double pole for the pump? What's there now is a 2-pole 20A, so I assume I need the same but just a GFI version.

Thank you!

 

[ajw22]

You don’t want two GFCIs on one circuit. If you put in a GFCI CB then you should change the outlet. T doesn’t matter if the GFCI is in the CB or outlet.

All 240V CBs are two pole to disconnect both hot lines.

 

[DesertSloth]

Ahhh ok- so just to clarify-
I can replace the 2-pole CB for the pump in the main with a GFCI.
I can keep the CB in the main for the light a NON-GFCI, as long as I have it running thru a GFI outlet (that is tested and working).
I can yank out the timer from that box if I want to (I don't need it), but I should keep the switches installed so I have a termination/service point for all the above if needed.

Right?

Thank you for all the help!

 

[ajw22]

Ahhh ok- so just to clarify-
I can replace the 2-pole CB for the pump in the main with a GFCI.

Yes

Electrical GFCI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Harmonics from the variable frequency drive can cause false GFCI trips. Pentair PA220GF is a 20A 240V GFCI breaker that GFCI trips at 6ma. The PA220GF is supposed to be less sensitive to false GCFI trips from VS pumps.

The PA220GF is a relabeled Siemens CB (QF220AP) although some say Pentair may have additional quality control and selects breakers less susceptible to false GFCI trips.

I can keep the CB in the main for the light a NON-GFCI, as long as I have it running thru a GFI outlet (that is tested and working).

Yes

I can yank out the timer from that box if I want to (I don't need it), but I should keep the switches installed so I have a termination/service point for all the above if needed.

No. That timer functions as the required "maintenance disconnect". You need to have a power switch for the pump within sight of the pump. Your pump CB in another location does not qualify. If you remove the timer you need to replace it with a double pole disconnect switch.

 

[DesertSloth]

Ahhh ok. Thank you for all the help! So basically, I can keep the box the same as it is- just add GFCI breaker to the main and verify/replace the outlet. Awesome. Thank you!!!

 

[ajw22]

Yup, lots less work then you expected.