Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

  1. Back To Top    #1
    hawkeyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    100

    TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    I think I finally have my TA lowered and stabilized after a verrrry long battle. It has consistently been in the 70-90 range for a couple of weeks now. The pH still rises every other day. I add acid, get it back down to 7.5 and then 2 days later it's back up to 7.8. Hopefully this will level out a bit more in time. Here are my numbers today----are phosphates seriously something to not even worry about as long as the other readings are in check? I stopped buying the PhosFree stuff at the recommendation of everyone here and now only buy acid while at Leslie's until I can come home and put the numbers in the pool calcuator.

    pH 7.8
    TC 5
    CH 230 (Pool Calc tells me this is too low for the first time ever)
    CYA 30 (have conditioner to add today)
    TA 80 (yippeeee!!!)
    Phosphates 800 ???? (down from the 2500 they told me a few weeks ago....said my new landscaping/fertiziler may have thrown off numbers)
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Central NJ
    Posts
    3,192

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    How are you adding chlorine? If you are using a salt cell or bleach, try dropping the pH a couple more tenths for a longer period before needing acid.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  3. Back To Top    #3
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    CH is fine
    TA is fine
    PH try targeting 7.2 instead - you may need to add Baking Soda to raise the TA in a few weeks or so (I know, I know...)
    CYA - good target 60
    PHosphates - irrelevant as long as you are maintaining proper FC levels, according to the CYA chart, you can ignore any phosphate readings.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  4. Back To Top    #4
    hawkeyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    100

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    CH is fine
    TA is fine
    PH try targeting 7.2 instead - you may need to add Baking Soda to raise the TA in a few weeks or so (I know, I know...)
    CYA - good target 60
    PHosphates - irrelevant as long as you are maintaining proper FC levels, according to the CYA chart, you can ignore any phosphate readings.
    Thanks. The liquid stabilizer at the pool store is EXPENSIVE and I feel like my levels are often low (have had to add it twice in the last month which cost almost $100). Is there any cheaper way to increase CYA? If not...why are my levels low but yet my chlorine levels are always right around 5?
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    255

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyes
    CYA 30 - target 60

    Thanks. The liquid stabilizer at the pool store is EXPENSIVE and I feel like my levels are often low (have had to add it twice in the last month which cost almost $100). Is there any cheaper way to increase CYA? If not...why are my levels low but yet my chlorine levels are always right around 5?
    Liquid stabilizer is always the most expensive method; it's because the CYA doesn't take as long to dissolve.
    At your current CYA of 30 and a target of 60 you need to add 88 oz. of powdered stabilizer (5-1/4 lb.) or 228 oz of liquid stabilizer.

    CYA (stabilizer or conditioner) at Wal-Mart is $16 for 3 or 4 pounds. You could spend $32 for the CYA that you need. Personally, I buy 4 or 5 containers when spring hits and it's time to open the pool. The local Wal-Marts run out of it by mid-June and they don't re-stock it.

    The only reason to ADD CYA is when you add water or have an ammonia problem, which is usually only over winter. Leaks or splash-out's require water which require CYA. CYA doesn't evaporate or disappear. It's the 1 pool chemical that doesn't get "used up".

    Terry in NC
    Triad Region of NC
    18x37 Vinyl IG (24,000 gal.), BBB & GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 SWG, Hayward 1 HP Superpump / Hayward Sand Filter / Polaris 280 cleaner / 6 deck jets / Sheer Descent Waterfall (in coping) / Brick Red Concrete Coping / Stamped Concrete Deck
    Lots of oak trees, maple trees, *and* leaves!

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    3,897

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    That's strange that your levels are often low, with a cartridge filter. Do you have an autofiller? Sometimes a leak + autofiller = lots of unintentional water replacement and low CYA.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

  7. Back To Top    #7
    hawkeyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    100

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    That's strange that your levels are often low, with a cartridge filter. Do you have an autofiller? Sometimes a leak + autofiller = lots of unintentional water replacement and low CYA.
    Nope...no autofill. We've had quite a few kids over swimming during the past 2 weeks and I have added about 1/2" of water due to lots of splash out. We also had quite a bit of rain 2 weeks ago and winds have been VERY high. Reading the CYA is the hardest part of all of the tests for me. When I read it on my end I get about 50. Leslie's says 30.

    I added the liquid stabilizer today so will see what the CYA level shows next week. So...if I understand you correctly...if I get my CYA up to 60 or so, it should STAY there unless we get a lot of rain or I have to add more water?
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

  8. Back To Top    #8
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    CYA normally drifts down very slowly through the pool season. You are always losing a little to splash out and, if you have a filter that requires backwashing, to backwashing. But that process should be rather slow.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    3,897

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    I lost 20 ppm CYA over 6 months due to chlorine breaking it down. It was over the winter, I kept my FC up, and nobody swam (no splash out). Sounds like you were losing more than that?
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

  10. Back To Top    #10
    hawkeyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    100

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Did my own numbers this morning and I really wonder if the chick at the store did a decent job. I'm getting a CYA of 90. I added a jug of the stabilizer yesterday and it went from 30 to 90??? Is that right??? TA is up to 90 as well (****) and I'm testing my chlorine at a 7.5. Does this mean I need to dial down my salt cell? It's at 50%.
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

  11. Back To Top    #11

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,415

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Always trust your own testing. More and more, it seems like that gets increasingly important.

    To increase CYA in that pool by 60ppm, you should've added more than 10 lbs! Sounds like a testing error on the front end and your CYA may well go over 90 if you added yesterday.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  12. Back To Top    #12
    hawkeyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    100

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Always trust your own testing. More and more, it seems like that gets increasingly important.

    To increase CYA in that pool by 60ppm, you should've added more than 10 lbs! Sounds like a testing error on the front end and your CYA may well go over 90 if you added yesterday.
    Yep....I think so, too. So what are the effects of high CYA????
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

  13. Back To Top    #13
    dmanb2b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    3,728

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Per Pool School....a cornerstone element of BBB is understanding the relationship between the chlorine in your pool and the stabilizer you put in to protect the chlorine from the sun. Generally, the more stabilizer, the more chlorine you need to maintain its effectiveness.

    CYA of 90 would say you should shoot for a minimum FC of 5-6ppm in a SWG pool...7.5ppm would be fine
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    255

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyes
    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Always trust your own testing. More and more, it seems like that gets increasingly important.
    To increase CYA in that pool by 60ppm, you should've added more than 10 lbs! Sounds like a testing error on the front end and your CYA may well go over 90 if you added yesterday.
    Yep....I think so, too. So what are the effects of high CYA????
    Please read the "Water Balance for SWGs" article in Pool School!
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...ater_generator
    I personally do not trust pool store testing. I've found it to be enough to get you vaguely into range, but it's kind of like missile technology: if you are aiming for the pitchers mound at Yankee Stadium and still want to hit the infield it will get you to the stadium and the parking lot. Yea, it's a ballpark estimate at best!

    About a 50% duty time on the salt cell...
    - Which cell are you using?
    - How many hours per day are you running it?
    - What's your FC and CC level when it's running?

    The various manufacturers have range limits for their PH, TA, and CYA that you need to stay within, while still maintaining effective FC levels. I vary my duty time with the bather load by running the pump more (and pre-dosing the pool with bleach! ). Also, warmer water means a higher duty cycle, usually because of the high bather load (aka parties). In addition, higher CYA means a higher FC level is required!

    Terry in NC
    Triad Region of NC
    18x37 Vinyl IG (24,000 gal.), BBB & GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 SWG, Hayward 1 HP Superpump / Hayward Sand Filter / Polaris 280 cleaner / 6 deck jets / Sheer Descent Waterfall (in coping) / Brick Red Concrete Coping / Stamped Concrete Deck
    Lots of oak trees, maple trees, *and* leaves!

  15. Back To Top    #15
    hawkeyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    100

    Re: TA finally in check...pH still high. And what about phosph?

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzy_dba
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyes
    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Always trust your own testing. More and more, it seems like that gets increasingly important.
    To increase CYA in that pool by 60ppm, you should've added more than 10 lbs! Sounds like a testing error on the front end and your CYA may well go over 90 if you added yesterday.
    Yep....I think so, too. So what are the effects of high CYA????
    Please read the "Water Balance for SWGs" article in Pool School!
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...ater_generator
    I personally do not trust pool store testing. I've found it to be enough to get you vaguely into range, but it's kind of like missile technology: if you are aiming for the pitchers mound at Yankee Stadium and still want to hit the infield it will get you to the stadium and the parking lot. Yea, it's a ballpark estimate at best!

    About a 50% duty time on the salt cell...
    - Which cell are you using?
    - How many hours per day are you running it?
    - What's your FC and CC level when it's running?

    The various manufacturers have range limits for their PH, TA, and CYA that you need to stay within, while still maintaining effective FC levels. I vary my duty time with the bather load by running the pump more (and pre-dosing the pool with bleach! ). Also, warmer water means a higher duty cycle, usually because of the high bather load (aka parties). In addition, higher CYA means a higher FC level is required!

    Terry in NC
    I run the pump 8 hours/day. My CC levels are usually between 5 and 7.
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •