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Thread: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

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    ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Hello, I am new to the site and looking for an answer regarding my 24' AGP installation.
    I purchased a used 24' round 52" wall pool last summer and almost ready to begin to put the
    pool up. However, My question is in regards to installing the new beaded type liner, and using the bottom foam cove.
    Do I put up the pool, lay down a 2" layer of sand (wall-wall) and then put the cove over the sand base up against the wall? Keeping in mind that the 2" sand base has covered up the bottom track so the notch on the back of the cove is useless.
    Or do I, and another layer of patio blocks to my existing blocks, then put in the 2" sand base, so that the bottom cove rides along the bottom track?
    52" wall height. Bead on liner is at 45" from bottom seam, and the bead receiver comes down 2" after it's installed on the wall. The math would leave me approx. 2-3" away from hitting the foam cove. PLEASE HELP WITH INFO.

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    NWMNMom's Avatar
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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    It should be installed prior to spreading sand per the instructions.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Thanks for the quick advice. That would bring up my next question. Does that now mean that I would have 2" of sand coming up the face of the cove? And the reason I posted these questions are, the video's that I have watched, and directions that I have read, say that the cove needs to come up 6" on the wall, where as the cove only has a height of 4". I am just trying to avoid any problems with the beaded liner being over streched by not hitting in the cove before water is added in the pool.

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    NWMNMom's Avatar
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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    sand coves are intended to go up 6", but then it packs down lower once the liner and water weight is on top of it. I wouldn't worry about the liner not stretching in if you do it on a warm sunny day. That is the key for best liner installation, they always stretch in about perfectly when you install on a day that is sunny and at least 70, but the warmer the better and SUN is a MUST. It makes that vinyl as pliable as butter. This holds true whether it's beaded or an overlap. We have installed the same type as yours (except unibead) which is fitted to the pool and with the sun and warm weather, it goes just as smooth as possible.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Thanks again for the info. I do want to ask you 1 more question. My pool site is level and prepared with 8"x16"x1 5/8" patio blocks counter sunk into the ground. Do you suggest then to (1)set up the bottom track, (2)install the wall,(3)install the bottom cove,(4) lay down a 2" sand bed floor, that will ride up the bottom cove? I have considered, replacing the current patio blocks with 8"x16"x3 1/2" and then laying down my sand bed, and installing the foam cove on-top of the sand bed, so the notch in the cove lands on the bottom track.
    I see you are also from MN, and the weather has put a halt on my project.

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Well, when we first installed this pool, and the ones before it, we used strictly sand. We are in the process of replacing our liner, whenever the weather gets decent again, so we will be installing the new foam walls, foam cove and gorilla floor pad over an existing sand bottom. This means we will be removing some of the sand already in there that was used to create the cove. I believe that the directions do call for the sand to go about 1-2" up the foam cove. It looks like we may be waiting at least another 7-10 days to get everything done on a sunny day.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    roddbp, what a friend of mine did was:
    1. Made a complete circle of 1 1/2" pavers making sure that the legs were centered on the paver.
    2. Laid 1 1/2" styrofoam inside the circle cutting it so it met up with the pavers.
    4. Gorilla taped the seams.
    5. Laid some kind of pad over the foam, not sure what brand, and cannot reach him as he is in Iraq now.
    6. Installed the 1/4" wall foam (he got his from his work not sure brand) and the foam cove.
    Taped the heck out everything.
    His pool turned out great!

    NWMNMom - Hope you did not put your snow shovel away! LOL
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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    We have a gorilla bottom and the cove sits right on top of that. No sand on the cove at all. I would not think you'd want to install the cove then cover part of it with sand. That would only leave you with a 2" cove above the sand. I'd say you'd lay the sand and set the cove on top of it. Which is really what you're doing with a sand cove. That way you have the full shape of the cove like you should.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    So since we are completely re-doing our inside to make a switch from complete sand to adding the foam cove and gorilla bottom pad, wondering if we will have to shovel out most of our sand or ???? I know that the sand that used for the cove needs to come out, but since we have 2" of sand inside the entire bottom, would we need to remove amost all of it so it isn't going up the cove/sides and just have the dirt floor underneath the gorilla pad or ??? I would think if we don't want any going up the side of the cove and just remove it there, the floor would have a "hump" in the center and be lower on the sides where the cove is. I'm confused - we won't be removing our wall and bottom rail to re-do the entire thing. Also, right now we are ever so slightly "dished" at the one end of the pool - will the gorilla pad need to be on completely flat floor since it is pre-cut/seamed for an 18'x33' pool? This whole project is my Mother's Day gift from the family so I don't want to burden them with more work than they need to do. Thanks!!!

    BTW Mcoonan: We are in the Red River Valley so we won't be getting any of the snow here since we are in such a low elevation here - just more rain we don't need - just a little thermal inversion setup we have, but it looks like the Lakes area around Fergus Falls, Bemidji will get the brunt of it. Yikes - guess we are used to winter in May around here though so no surprises!
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Mod Squad
    I am wondering if you noticed the post i had early on this topic. Right now my site is set up with the patio blocks counter-sunk and level to the existing ground. Now, would i put up the pool, dump a 2" layer of sand on the inside, and then the foam cove on-top of the sand bed? The reason i am having a problem with that process is, the notch on the foam cove would NOT be sitting along the bottom track.
    That is why i am thinking to replace my patio blocks with thicker patio blocks and THEN level the site with sand, i then figure i could use the thinner patio blocks at the mid-piont beneath the bottom track (inbetween the up-right blocks).
    That way i am covered with a 2" +/- of sand on the floor, and then the cove sitting on-top of the sand bed.

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Remember, if you have a round pool "support" under the posts for the sides is not quite as necessary since the water distributes the weight evenly all the way around. The oval pools do require the block supports.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    I didn't know that, however, all the directions that i have read on-line, say that i needed the patio blocks under the up-rights. I am really just trying to understand the flooring height though. Does the 2" sand cover the bottom track and then the foam cove, or do i basically raise the pool up the 2", so that the sand does not cover up the bottom track, so the notch in the bottom cove sits where it shows(tight against the bottom track).

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Good question, someone who has already installed the cove with sand should answer. However the instructions that come with the foam cove I bought stated to put the sand down after the cove is installed and the website I just googled actually showed the sand a bit up the cove - I think there must be a few ways to do it depending on the installer, merchants and who you ask. A lot of people install the bottom track right on top of crusher run so perhaps the rail is raised a bit higher than the floor?
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Ok, I did a search on the site and found exactly what both of us are looking for in several other posts. Here is a really good one that answers almost all of our questions. silly-foam-cove-question-t14054.html?hilit=foam cove
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    I am thinking that this link just might have solved my questions. It looks like they layer their sand to the top of the bottom track and then place the cove on the sand (not using the notch on the foam cove).
    Any other comments?
    http://www.backyardcitypools.com/vinyl- ... -NL102.htm

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Keep in mind that the brand listed on that site does not have the notch in it. Does yours have the notch? The site I bought mine from had both types, with and without. Mine does have the notch - I guess I would worry about installing it above the rail instead of on it, since that notch would still be there - would there be any issue with that vacant space where the notch is causing a weak spot or deficiancy? It's something to consider since they are not the same product.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    NWMNMom
    If you look at the backyardcitypools site link that i posted above, you can click on the pictures to enlarge them and you will see that the cove they are using does have a notch out of the back. They layered the sand to the top of the bottom track, then installed the cove, with no regards to the viod on the back side of the cove. They also lightly swept sand on top of the cove, and then sprayed it with water to wash the sand down to the bottem of the cove. It really looks like they knew what they were doing.

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Hi,

    Saw a Blank PM in my inbox about this and thought I'd just add my .02.

    I too am using Gorilla Pad over a layer of sand. My cove is sitting right on the Gorilla Pad.

    A sand cove under the foam cove just didn't seem correct to me. Most of the pictures I saw were either the Foam Cove sitting right on the sand (which I believe to be the correct way) or . . .

    A large number of people advised that they (or their builder) built a sand cove and then put the foam cove on top of it. (Again, this too looked a bit odd to me) but it seemed that it was a "50/50" thing. Some did it one way, some did it the other. My cove MFG said that it goes "on the ground / sand". (that's why it's notched out to go around the bottom pool rail).

    That made sense to me. Why would the foam cove (at least my cove), be notched to clear the bottom rail if it was supposed to sit on a cove of sand??

    Also. Many pool mfg's advise an EARTH COVE not Sand, so putting the foam cove on a sand cove (to me and I'm sure others) is just waiting for a "wash out" at some point..

    What had me puzzled though was the fact that the foam cove was something like 4.5" high and the pool mfg advised a 6" earth cove. I too was worried that the liner would'nt stretch that extra 1.5". As mentioned, it did and came out fine.

    For my base: In my case, I used a plate compactor to compact 6+" of road screenings - which is like very fine gravel (it was like a concrete slab when I was done with it and smooth as silk.) I then set the bottom rail for the pool and the walls and then used 1" (compacted) of sand.. , which allowed about a 1/2" of my bottom track to remain visible (Mine has the composite bottom rail).
    I then added the Gorilla Pad and the foam cove on top of it.. I decided against the wall foam at the last minute after hearing of quite a few people with leaks from people with long sharp toenails etc walking along the foam cove (which obviously you should not do) and "digging into the liner which now has some more give due to the wall foam).

    I'm sure the wall foam is a great product but after I took a piece of scrap liner and put part of it over foam and part of it over bare pool wall and then "tapped it" with a screw driver, (forum member got me thinking about that) I noticed the the foam allowed the sharp object to penetrate / damage the liner where it did not without the foam. (That's just my opinion on the foam, I'm sure it's a good product and probably does help against wall corrosion etc).

    Mine came out like a dream and the bottom floor is like a concrete pad. But the Gorilla Pad gives it a nice feel. Very firm but still "cushy" on the feet.

    I
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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    Oh that is great to know how someone else has done it - the cove does go ON the rail, sand is under the Gorilla pad at about 1" rather than 2" - I was looking at the notch in the cove material so that makes sense. We also used the plate compacter and Class 5 to make a "slab" that the rail sits on (countersunk patio blocks under the uprights) Thank you.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Re: ABOVE GROUND POOL BOTTOM COVE

    My pool liner installer did not put any cement blocks under my pool either. I have a 33ft round....they leveled the area with gravel screenings and compacted it, so it was hard like cement almost...then they set the legs, wall right on it. They said a round pool doesn't need the cement footings under legs..because there is really NO downward force on the pool, rather all the force is outward on the wall itself.

    Also...I went with 2 inchs of sand on the floor, and then the cove was about 4 or 5 inches up the pool wall. I had the peel and stick foam cove..but I saw what the weight of the pool does to that stuff over time, and I opted for the sand cove.the pool foam I pulled out when I bought the pool was compacted down to nothing and kinked in many places...This was only 4 years old. so I didn't want the same thing to happen to mine, so like I said, I had my liner installer use sand for the bottom wall cove.

    Dan
    33' x 52" Swim and Play Inc. PARAGON AGP. Hayward H200 Heater. Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump. Sta-Rite Cristal Flo T-210WF Sand Filter. Stenner 45M5 chlorine pump

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