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Thread: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

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    Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Hi ..I am new to this site. We have an IG pool 12 years old. We hired someone to install new liner. All was well and when water was just above pool light -- we turned on the pool light....YIKES....the pool floor looks like the moon. Our floor previously was very smooth. We had a few divots and requested that he fill them. Our floor is vermiculite. We contacted him and told him of the problem. He told us he used sand and cement to fill with. We email pic. to him showing where we can see boot prints (never had that before). We still owe 40 % of job....(thank goodness). I feel certain he would not come back but for this. He says he can reverse and blow the liner up and get under there and correct this. He is very angy and said that his price did not include doing whole floor. I agree....the floor had no issues prior to him. He acknowledge on last visit that floor look good prior to installing liner. I do not understand how this has happen. I just know that it is unacceptable and I know problems will arise when vacuuming...and standing on these lumps. I would think that it would damage the liner also. The liner is less and 2 weeks old. It looks so bad there is no way I can live with this for the next 10 years. I feel (I am not a professional) that it would be better to take as much of liner out as possible - scrap out his sand/cement mixer - and refill / trowel with vermiculite. Maybe even take a board / or level and screen it off. I hope you know what I mean. My husband and I could have done this but we did not have the time. I hate that this has happen and hate to have him back out as I now don't trust him. When blowing the liner up by reversing the air on vacuum...would this not put stress on liner where it is attached to return jets, polaris jet, steps, light etc. ? Have you ever heard of this method to fix? Would this be an acceptable way to fix this seeing how he may have to remove what he put down and fix with correct pool base? I would so appreciate some feedback. Thanks in advance.
    33x24 gunite pool, hayward4.0 LED light, vs-3050 pentair pump, clean and clear plus 520, rainbow 320 chlorinator

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    I'd go ahead and talk to your lawyer now.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Is the original bottom vermiculite, concrete, sand, or poolcrete (mix of cement, vermiculite, almost like a tile grout and hard).
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    vermiculite
    33x24 gunite pool, hayward4.0 LED light, vs-3050 pentair pump, clean and clear plus 520, rainbow 320 chlorinator

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    whoozer's Avatar
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    If he bandaids the issue and doesn't fix the problem you could have liner issues later. I'd request for the entire thing to be redone, I would want my vermiculite fixed as well as a new liner.
    Some settling of vermiculite is normal most liner pools have a little, but loads of it tends to be poor workmanship as I have found from past experience.
    14x33 fiberglass freeform
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    It was nothing like this prior to him. We are the orginal owners of pool. I will try to figure out how to upload pic. Thanks to all for help.
    33x24 gunite pool, hayward4.0 LED light, vs-3050 pentair pump, clean and clear plus 520, rainbow 320 chlorinator

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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Has anyone ever heard of reversing the vacuum and blowing air under liner to inflate it without detaching it and then getting under to fix?
    33x24 gunite pool, hayward4.0 LED light, vs-3050 pentair pump, clean and clear plus 520, rainbow 320 chlorinator

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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    trying to attach pic.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    33x24 gunite pool, hayward4.0 LED light, vs-3050 pentair pump, clean and clear plus 520, rainbow 320 chlorinator

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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    picture of shallow end....it looks like he ran a chariot through the pool. There is no way I can live with this. Can this liner be removed and put back in after floor is fix? The liner is only 2 weeks old. I realize the danger of not being able to line up previous return jets etc. Could you put a patch while liner is out on both front and back where the cut-out for jets were in case they don't line up exactly? I have extra liner from where steps were cut out. What do you pro's say? I think by the time I would get this thing resolved with this guy through court system ... the pool season will be about over.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    33x24 gunite pool, hayward4.0 LED light, vs-3050 pentair pump, clean and clear plus 520, rainbow 320 chlorinator

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    whoozer's Avatar
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    That thing looks aweful! I've never seen one quite that bad before.

    Maybe it wouldn't hurt calling someone else in to get an estimate and an expert opinion on how to fix it.

    Whatever you do DONT pay the guy his other 40%!
    14x33 fiberglass freeform
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Welcome to TFP!!

    As one of the 'pros' , I say it looks like cr*p

    However, it MUST have been close to that before the new liner was dropped - they couldn't have done THAT dropping the liner!

    Patching the floor, or re-trowing a sand bottom is 'part and parcel' of dropping a new liner!

    Call the dudes who hacked this and have them re-do the liner!

    Again, welcome here - call the installer and, calmly, express your issues -- see what they'll do
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Honestly....it was not like this. I know this pool well....I have had it for 12 years. I have vacuum this pool and I knew where each divot was. I don't know how this happen. I spoke with installer and he is willing to come out and fix. My concern is his approach to fixing it. He wants to inflate (blow up Liner) and get under and retrowel. I just can't see how he could do a good job approaching it this way. I had another pro. pool installer out and he said they would take the liner out and reskim floor with vermiculite then reinstall current liner. The guy who installed orginally wants to fix so as to get rest of his money. What do you pro's think of his approach on how he is wanting to fix this? What to do???? Looking forward to your responses. Thanks in advance.
    33x24 gunite pool, hayward4.0 LED light, vs-3050 pentair pump, clean and clear plus 520, rainbow 320 chlorinator

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    whoozer's Avatar
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    I would do it the way your second guy stated to do it. I would be nice but matter of fact with the first guy and say this is how I want it done. I have had second opinions on how to fix it and these are my terms. You don't need to fight with him just be firm.
    14x33 fiberglass freeform
    Variable speed Pentair intelliflo superpump
    420 Clean and Clear Plus cartridge filter.
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    I understand just what you're going through. Ours was replaced in Jan when we'd had 2.5 inches of rain and my yard was saturated. The contractor decided he wanted to put it in one day, I told him he'd better bring boots as the water in the back was at least 2 inches deep. Mine actually looks like the Grand Canyon while yours looks like the moon surface. He told me that he'd come back to repair it when it was drier and I withheld $500. He now won't return my calls. I made a report to BBB, which he ignored. Next I got ahold of a attorney for a demand letter and possible litigation, a report to the Licensing Board and to the Attorney General. I want him to either fix it or return all my money. I've called several liner installers and one came threw his hands up and said "GOOD LUCK". I feel for ya. Would love to keep in contact with you on your situation.

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    Henry Porter's Avatar
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    tt! From your pictures does this looks to be a result very far from what a pro should leave after himself.
    Even if the bottom wasn't perfect once he started his work. Is it his responsiblity to make sure you understand what the outcome would be if he proceed whitout fixing it first.
    I hope it works out for you in one way or the other. I would like many others here vote for a new installation so you can do it right from the beginning. My experience is that if you try to repair things without first take it back to the step where the misstake was made, seldom leads to a good result!
    Inground concrete pool 14600 gallons,Pentair Whisperflo 3/4HP WFE-3, Hayward swimclear 420sq ft
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    I am in similar situation, that being my pool floor feels like the surface of the moon. The pool is only 7 weeks old. My installer told me keep an eye on it and see if it gets worse. He blamed it on either a high ant population or earthworms! Come on. Going to try and be pleasant as to get him to come fix after the season.

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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tt
    picture of shallow end....it looks like he ran a chariot through the pool. There is no way I can live with this. Can this liner be removed and put back in after floor is fix? The liner is only 2 weeks old. I realize the danger of not being able to line up previous return jets etc. Could you put a patch while liner is out on both front and back where the cut-out for jets were in case they don't line up exactly? I have extra liner from where steps were cut out. What do you pro's say? I think by the time I would get this thing resolved with this guy through court system ... the pool season will be about over.

    get 2 estimates, pay another company to do the repairs, file in small claims for the cost less the 40%-

    you will get your pool fixed, enjoy the season and by the end of the season- you'll have a ruling on your case.
    16' x 32' 20K rectangle sport, salt, IG vinyl, Hayward Salt system, 2hp pump, Haywood 4 cartridge filter, Hayward H250 heater, built 2007

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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Make sure when the floor is skimcoated they use enough cement.When we mix our vermiculite we put 47 pounds of cement with 22 pounds of vermic, when I replace liners in our pools we just sweep the floor and put in the new liner.I have seen cases when replacing liners the original floor wasn't mixed properly to dry or not enough cement when you remove the old liner the vermic sticks to the liner and really tears up the floor.

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: Liner install problem... pls. HELP !!!

    Sorry you are having this problem. I had some issues with mine, that never got resolved. In my case at night, and underwater, if i swim to the right spot i can look back across my pool and see foot prints, where someone walked after the liner was installed over wet vermiculite.

    Might i suggest taking some pictures underwater and at night for court.

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