New Pool Build - Any Experience with EcoFinish

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dmmincrjr

0
Mar 31, 2010
23
Downingtown, PA
I am in the quoting phase of a pool build in PA about an hour west of Philadelphia and one company is proposing to build a concrete pool with a finish called Aqua-Brite which is a poly thermal pool finish. If can be found here at this website: http://www.ecopoolfinish.com I think this is a rather new finish system and from reading it seems like a good option over plaster as you have the advantages of a concrete pool without all the work associated with plaster curing and then cracking/shrinking/refinishing. It comes with a 10 year warranty as well. As I am looking for something that will hold up well without the need for continual maintenance this seems like a good choice and was wondering if anyone had any experience or opinions with this finish.

This also is my first pool build and I am trying to do it right the first time and have been doing a lot of reading on the forum. Here are some specifications please make any comments or suggestions where you think I might have issues.

-750 ft² pool, any shape, 3' – X’ depth

- Excavation
- Rock Solid Partners includes 2 days of free rock removal at excavation
- additional day of excavation required and included
- all soil removed as necessary, unless requested to leave on-site by buyer
- includes all pre-pool excavation grading work
- shaping and forming of pool shell
- sub-grade construction for pool deck
- topsoil stockpiled on site or machine graded on day of excavation
- temporary construction fence installed around pool shell
- 3" - 4" bed of clean crushed stone placed on pool floor

- Steel Re-inforcement construction
- all ½ “, #4 bars placed through-out pool walls, floor, loveseat and bond beam
- 12" horizontal and vertical spacing of bars and 6" spacing in bond beam
- Construction ensures superior winter frost protection

- Electrical bonding and inspection by independent electrical inspection agency

- Shotcrete construction
- 4,000 P.S.I. concrete (compressive strength at 28 days)
- Industry leading 8" thick concrete wall and floor construction
- 12" wide x 14" deep concrete at pool bond beam
- 12" thick concrete footing at wall and floor cove area
- 4 shallow end steps with 6’ extended bench off of 3rd step
- 1 – 6’ deep end loveseat for ingress / egress from pool
- 2 hydrostatic relief plugs placed in floor of pool

- Plumbing construction:
- all 2" schedule 40 PVC pipe
- 2 premium water surface skimmers
- Eco-Pool utilizes master water valve to direct solar or gas heated water sequentially to 3 Paramount Pool Products pop-up returns in pool floor & 2 wall water returns
- Paramount Pool Products’ MDX™ anti-entrapment main drain in pool
- See at paramountpoolproducts.com

- Pool tile & coping
- 6" band of frost-proof waterline tile
- customer choice for pattern and color
- Marion Ceramics 4” x 12´bull nose coping included

- Interior shell finish
- Aqua-Brite poly thermal pool finish
- see at http://www.ecopoolfinish.com

- Lighting
- 2 x 500W lights in side wall of pool

- Safety features
- safety rope, rope anchors with safety floats placed across limit of shallow end
- Safety vacuum release system
- Vac-Alert device installed on main water pump for pool

- Deck Construction
- 750 ft² broom finish concrete patio surround

EQUIPMENT AND UTILITIES:
- Jandy™ full rated 1½ hp pump for efficient pool water circulation
- Jandy™ 60 ft² diatomaceous earth filter with Jandy™ 2" multi-port valve
- King Technology Frog XL Pro Mineral sanitizer
- Vac-Alert safety vacuum release system
- Pool interior cleaner – Legend II by Pentair, Inc.

-Lifetime Structural Warranty
-All Public Liability and Workman’s Compensation Insurance

I have to meet to discuss the above and already want to make some changes to the pool equipment. I want to have a pool with low operating/maintenance costs and am willing to pay more up front to achieve. From what I have read on the forums Pentair seems to be more able to meet that goal and therefore would like to use that in place of the Jandy. The builder already has indicated that would not be a problem now I just need to determine what is needed so any recommendations that would meet that goal are appreciated. I also know I would rather have a salt water pool from talking to other pool owners and reading the forum although the builder is recommending regular chlorine with an ozone generator. It is going to be a pool only with no spa feature so it will be simple in that regard however because of the way the septic system is situated on the property the pool will be a distance of probably 150 to 200 feet from the house. Therefore I was hoping to incorporate some type of automation so it could be monitored from within the house preferably with a computer and simple display. I know Pentair has the Intellitouch system but am not sure if I need all those bells and whistles and am not sure if the EasyTouch would allow it to me monitored by computer. Right now it would probably just be some lighting along with the pump, SWG that would need to be controlled as we also have no water features in the design.

So far this site has been a great way to gather information and I am sure I will be using it again to maintain the pool once built.

Any input to the above would be appreciated.
 
That finish looks interesting, like a sprayed-on bedliner for a pickup truck. I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I've never heard of it before, on this site or elsewhere. That would make me a little wary.

Ditch the pool frog! It's not necessary or helpful, expensive, and causes issues with metal staining and green hair. It also encourages an unsafe (too low) chlorine level.

Others will help with other stuff...
 
Welcome to TFP :wave:

I say get a SWG, ditch the Mineral system and definitely get a variable speed pump.

Consider an auto fill and auto overflow.

How many returns and exactly how is the plumbing going to be done? Are the skimmer lines ran back to the pad individually or are they tied together or tied to the main drain? Are the returns to be ran individually or tied together?

I'm sure there's more but someone else will fill in the blanks.

And the most important thing is don't forget pictures. We all love them.
 
I noticed the reference pools are all indoor commercial facilities. Since they are a small operation, the use of this product locks you to a single vendor. The risk of being bleeding edge is significant. If they go under, getting this stuff off isn't going to be easy to replaster. In 10 years when it's time to recoat, they can charge what they want and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.

I think you'll be safer and better off with a known, high aggregate content finish like PebbleTec/Fina/Sheen or River Rok. They will outlast most plasters by about 2X or more. There is competition and Pebble and SGM have been around a long time.

If control via the PC is a must, Intellitouch with Screen Logic is the only option. One additional neat feature is you can also control it from an iPhone or iPad.

Lighting : Two Intellibrite LED Fixtures. Two 500s would be too much.
Salt Cell: Intellichlor IC60 with Power Center.
Pump: Intelliflow VS-SVRS
Filter: Quad DE 80 plumbed like a cartridge, no multiport needed. Plumb a waste port to the pump exhaust to lower the pool when needed.
Pool Sweep: Legend-II
No heater or heat pump?
Vac-Alert is not needed because the SVRS is built into the pump.

Skip the Frog

How far away from the pool will the equipment pad be? And the house? My concerns here are electrical, network access and head loss. The suction side may need 2-1/2" lines. Long power runs may require thicker wire and conduit. Wireless distance may be exceeded. It might be worthwhile looking into moving the leach field.

Skip the Paramount Pop-Ups. Simply plum the pad to be able to quit pulling from the drain and send return water to it. Works great. Costs less. Two 3 Way valves vs the pop ups and associated plumbing.

Run each skimmer on it's own line too. There will be times you will have to manually vacuum. Having the individual lines gives you better control of the suction.

Specify pressure rated hard pipe and no flex pvc. Termites can't eat hard pipe.

Two skimmers if you go over 700 sq feet. Dual drains too.

Ask how many returns and what size. The sweep line will be 1-1/2".

Best of luck!

Scott
 
Thanks for the replies and very useful information. I will be meeting with the PB over the weekend to hopefully get some more details about the plumbing.

I to am concerned about the finish they are quoting and that is why I was hoping someone had knowledge or experience. From some of my research I believe a company called Xiom actually makes the powder coating and equipment to apply. The PB that is quoting me has set up a separate company with the exclusive rights to market this technology throughout the US. It looks like this occurred back in September of 2009 so yes it is new to the pool industry but Xiom has been in business since 2003 and supplies this technology to other industries as well for some added diversification. The PB quoting has been in business for over 30 years and is considered a top 50 builder in the US. The reason for only reference pools being commercial pools is that the PB was testing with these clients before bringing it to the residential market. It was my understanding the coating is supposed to last a lot longer than 10 years they were just warranting it for that amount of time.

At present I was not planning a heater or heat pump. The pool is situated in an area of a lot of direct sun from morning to night and I was hoping that would be enough however I had planned to have the pad site and plumbing designed to accommodate that type of equipment in the future if warranted. I also had not ruled out the possibility of solar as I am planning on having a 14 x 24 storage shed close to the pool and then putting panels on the roof. I haven't researched that enough yet to see if it would be feasible however.

I believe the pool equipment would be located in close proximity to the pool. The builder has an allowance for 250 feet of electrical from the house and we are within that range. I was planning on running two cat 5 cables in conduit to the equipment pad so any networking would be hard wired and not wireless. I figured it would be easy to do when they were trenching the electrical however I would run the networking cables in separate conduit. Moving the septic I think would be difficult. I am not the original owner of the house but apparently they had a very difficult perk and they installed a drip system in the back yard. This is supposedly the Cadillac of septic systems but I have drip tubing that basically runs side to side in the backyard and is about 50 feet from front to back. I guess it was better than a sand mound but it takes up a lot of space.

If I use a PebbleTec/Fina/Sheen or River Rok type of finish what is the average life expectancy? I would assume from Scott's statement that it will outlast plaster by 2X or more that maybe a well cared for plaster is 10 to 15 years so 25 to 30 years could be possible with that type of finish? I had talked to a pool builder last year who specializes in vinyl and constructs a very good pool but did not want to be on the hook replacing the liner every 10 to 15 years at 4 to 5K.

As I said I am meeting with the PB over the weekend and hopefully can get more of the plumbing nailed down. I like the idea of skipping the Paramount Pop-Ups and using the drain. I will propose that to the PB when we meet.

Thanks again for the information.
 
Properly cared for, Pebble finishes last more than 2x plaster. They are harder because they use harder materials as aggregate. River Rock doesn't have the same amount of rock aggregate in it as Pebble's but is still substantially more durable than plaster.

Regular plaster uses marble dust, aka marblite as an aggregate. It is a very soft material.

Scott
 
The "Frog" we refer to here is a chlorine feeder with a mineral ion pak. Lots of us got pool stored into buying one. Some if us used it and had lots of problems later. I'll not mention any names but look three posts up! :) Others of us found this place before we let it mess up our water and cause problems. I have a brand new one sitting on the trash trailer waiting its fate with the grabage man!
 

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No I decided against it for a couple different reasons. I did a little more googling of the company Xiom that I think actually makes the EcoFinish and didn't like some of the things that I read. Also the pool builder that was quoting did not really want to deviate from their standard equipment package. They were quoting Jandy and I wanted Pentair similar to the list PoolGuyNJ has above for which they wanted a ridiculous amount of money and then would not offer an offset for the Jandy equipment not being used. So basically I was paying for the Jandy and then another 9k for the Pentair which I was not prepared to accept.

In the end I ended up going with a vinyl liner pool. Construction started last Monday and they had the hole dug and steel framing and plumbing done by last Wednesday. They then just came back today and trenched for the electric and ran a 50 amp circuit up to the pad. They will be back tomorrow to finish the electric as the run is about 225 feet from the house. I also had them put in a water line from the house and we ran a separate conduit for the data cable for the IntelliTouch control plus a pull line for any future wire I may want to bring up to the pad site. I just have the Indoor Control Panel for the IntelliTouch but plan to add the Screen Logic next year. I also got the IntelliFlo SVRS pump as well. The pool company I am using normally uses Hayward equipment so the Pentair stuff is a little bit of a challenge as they have not worked with the Intelli stuff before. They however are having the Pentair rep come out next week to go over the installation and make sure everything is setup correctly.

The pool itself is a 944 sq. ft. Tru El design. That will allow a deep end for diving and a big shallow end for games. The PB has been great so far and the only thing he was inflexible on was the flexible piping. He has been building pools for a long time and has not had any problems with it so I allowed it to go in the ground. He showed me what he used and it really seemed to be a heavy duty flexible pipe that should hold up. Hopefully it will not be a decision I regret in a few years. They plan to have the pool finished by the end of next week. Hopefully will be swimming in the second week of August.
 
Here are a few pictures. They are supposed to come back tomorrow to form the decking, inspection on Thursday and concrete arrives on Friday.
 

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