Automatic pool covers, thoughts?

[knjpool]

Excellent discussion

My cover pool for a 20 x 41 is running 12.5k so that is my reason for concern. I do think that the precautions here are don't reduce the water level in the winter and make sure there is enough slack in the cover so that it doesn't get pulled too tightly as to cause damage under load. I do think generally one could make the cover last longer if it were not used in the winter. I base that on gut though not facts.

 

[chem geek]

Clearly one can only use this approach with the caveats that Jason mentioned. If for whatever reason the water level were to drop in the pool, the cover would likely get damaged. It might be more expensive than just the cover if it damages the rails as well. Also as bk406 notes, this means you can't be in a hard freeze area with respect to the pipes because you won't be winterizing the pool by lowering the water level, blowing out the pipes, plugging them, and adding anti-freeze. So the approach only works in intermediate climates where there might be snow or rain but not consistently cold enough temperatures to require pipe protection (or assuming your electricity will always be working to run your pump for freeze protection).

The basic reason that a cover on top of the water with sufficient slack works is that the weight on the cover pushes the water level up a lot at the sides thus giving fuller support to the cover and having most of the cover only drop a relatively small amount that can be handled by the slack in the cover. Obviously, one should discuss whether a cover can be used in this way with the manufacturer of the cover itself as they would know whether their cover will work in such conditions.

In my own pool, I've noticed that if I forget to have the pool cover pump on the cover when it rains that even an inch of rain on the cover doesn't stretch it out at all (i.e. there is still slack and is not taut) at which point it overflows into the vault and its associated drain. However, if there is even a relatively small amount of water on the cover when I try to open it, then as the cover is opened it gets seriously deformed (header bar bends in the middle and cover is droopy). So even where I live where I only get rain and no snow, the use of a pool cover pump is more of a safety factor in case the water level gets too low, but is absolutely essential for removing water before a cover is opened.

 

[bk406]

Also as bk406 notes, this means you can't be in a hard freeze area with respect to the pipes because you won't be winterizing the pool by lowering the water level, blowing out the pipes, plugging them, and adding anti-freeze. .

Just to clarify a little. You dont really need to drop the water to blow out the lines. You can blow out the lines with the water level above the returns.

The reason you want to lower the water really depends on the type of pool you have and how its built. If you have a concrete pool with tiles along the water line, you really need to drop the water below that. Ice can pop the tiles off wall so its better to just drop the water below that level.
Another big problem that can occur is popping the coping, especially if is cantilevered. If the water isnt dropped, the cover can displace the water up the sides of the pool as has been pointed out. When that water freezes and expands, it can be high enough on the sides to put pressure on the coping and actually pop it off the top of the pool. Not good to say the least.
So in areas where the pool freezes and the snow has the potential to get deep, using an auto cover as a substitute for a proper winter cover may not be the best thing.

 

[JasonLion]

using an auto cover as a substitute for a proper winter cover may not be the best thing.

Um, a winter rated auto cover is in every sense a "proper winter cover".

All of the other points you made are valid. You would definitely not want water line tile with an automatic winter cover. Likewise an automatic winter cover can not be correctly fitted to a pool with coping right near the water line. The cover track should be connected directly to the bond beam and the coping, if any, should be noticeably (several inches) above that. You can see examples of this in several of the pictures at the http://www.coverpools.com/ web site.

Water displacement can't force water from the pool above the cover. The cover and track seals to the band beam. Any water displacement either pushes against the cover or the pool wall. There is a slight risk from rain water or snow melt on top of the cover, but a cover pump, suitable drain around the rim above the cover, and a couple of inches of clearance between the cover and the coping take care of that.

 

[bk406]

Um, a winter rated auto cover is in every sense a "proper winter cover".

What I said was:

So in areas where the pool freezes and the snow has the potential to get deep, using an auto cover as a substitute for a proper winter cover may not be the best thing.

I dont consider an auto cover "proper" for a winter cover where it freezes, and snows a lot, which I thought i put the proper caveats on. It would be a fine winter cover if snow wasnt measured in feet and the pool didnt freeze a foot deep. To me, in these areas, a proper winter cover is a tarp with water bags or a Loop-Loc type cover. A pumop on the cover to remove water is fine. But in a lot of areas of the cointry, where it doesnt get above freezing for 30-40 days or more at a time, a cover pump is a big paper weight. My opinion has a lot to do with where I live I suppose.

 

[carbonlace]

I was wondering about snow and the cover but my installer never said anything.

We got 22 inches in two days last year. I'm assuming the stuff floats on the pool though since its filled in the winter.

I'll definitely ask about that.

Hello. You should not use your automatic pool cover as a "winter cover" unless pool is open year round and heated. If for any reason the water level should drop in pool with weight on the cover (water/snow) it will destroy the system in a number of ways.
Cover will tear, track(guide) and or coping stones may be pulled into pool. Trust me,I Install and service these systems and would not recommend using the automatic covers system as a winter cover. The repair cost for damage like this is not worth the risk
Tip to Owners of any of the brands. Make sure that the cover housing/vault has drains and they are working. clogged drains shorten the life of the mechanism and fabric.

 

[JTD]

The coverstar pool cover did not hold up , faded in color, and although the local guy was great they did very little to support

 

[vapools]

Automatic pool covers are a luxury item for those who want protection at the ease of a switch. Many city codes for new pools are requiring safety features of pool fences or automatic covers due to the increasing numbers of children drowning. Majority of the automatic pool covers we install are retrofitted either from new home purchases with existing pools or adding one at a later time. We use recessed tracks cut into the concrete as well as a recessed unit including an aluminum lid for a complete flush mount system no matter the shape of the pool. Over the past several years, people have been converting to salt water pools and the development of cover systems has increased dramatically improving their lifespan. There is no better protection knowing you can close the pool in seconds compared to the other options. Plus, they also take place of the traditional winter covers; increase efficiency on heated pools; and eliminate skimming on a constant basis with leaves and debris.
As a pool installation company, I can honestly say that they are all the same as far as components. They work in the same manner and their warranties are almost identical. The key factors are: what is the upfront cost; how long has the installation company been in business; what type of installation do you want. Remember, you are dealing with a dealer of these products and their service is not reflected by the manufacture. I install PCS covers and have serviced many other companies products. Rely on customer referrals or check referrals to make that decision. Allen-VA Pool Protection Service

 

[WillowWii]

Just a note to those in snow country. Those auto covers are not designed to bbe used in winter where there is a snow load. You would still need a safety cover like a Loop_loc or a tarp and water bags.

I have to comment on this because it is just not true for all covers and bad advice to boot. I speak from 20 years experience with two different pools covered by Coverstar auto covers, The first ten years was in the Chicago area and the second ten here in New England. Both with record snows during the time.

Coverstar covers do carry the snow and ice load during winter, there is water under the cover, and you use a cover pump all winter so on warm days during snow melt it gets pumped off the cover just like any other time of the year.

With our first Coverstar in Illinois we believed we would prolong the life of our cover by not using it in the winter and had a Loop-loc mesh cover also installed just for the winter. By year 7 the cover started to rot. The problem is with leaving it rolled up from the time you close the pool until spring /summer opening. Most of the time the weather is not below freezing and mold /mildew grows between the layers and eats the cover.

We had a 20 x40 pool with the built in under deck track that ran off an electric motor. Had very little trouble with it.

With our second cover here in New England we decided to just use the cover as the MFG intended. We have had no damage to the cover like we had on the first cover. No problem with snow load and we had record snows last winter. 38 inches in two days from one storm. This pool is 20 x55 and because of the length Coverstar recommended the hydraulic motor.

We requested this cover from our pool installer. He had never done one. Coverstart flew someone here to install it with him. Okay this should have been a red flag but we didn't realize what this meant.

The biggest problem and one we have suffered from since the cover was installed is that NO ONE is out here to service them. If you are considering a Coverstar make sure there are plenty of listings for dealers/service in your area.

I now Hate this cover because it is either stuck part way shut or stuck part way open. I would never again use hydraulic. If I had known the problems this would have I would have forced my husband to shorten the pool length. Our latest request for service is now going on six weeks. Fortunately this time its open except the last foot so we can use the pool. I wish there was a hand crank option for emergencies as a partially covered pool is even more dangerous.

A Coverstar cover is every bit a winter cover as a lock and loop. Anyone trying to sell you an extra mesh cover on top of an auto cover is just trying to increase their own sales. If as one person mentioned your water level drops, you have a much bigger problem then the cover.

 

[bk406]

Glad it worked for you, but I still stand by my previous advice.

 

[dradam]

This thread has been dead for a few years, but I'll just add my two sense. I have had an undermount coverstar system in place for 10 years. For the first 7 years had no cover.

Pro's:The cover has been great. Water chemistry, cleanliness, and even safety have all been far easier to maintain. Cost of chemicals have gone way down and even less in the last year when I converted to SWG and automation.

Con's: Coverstar in my area charges a fortune for everything they do. New cover replacement 6K. ropes alone $800 plus.

Solution: I have learned a lot in the past 10 years and have replaced both my ropes. sliders, bearings and cover on my own. If you are handy it is not conceptually difficult.The hardest part is getting out the encapsulation moulding. Parts and even covers can be bought online. PCS covers (which include built in ropes)can be purchased to fit coverstar tracks and are far less expensive.I have been impressed with the quality so far. I also rinse out the tracks frequently which helps with drag. I have a kidney pool under a rectangle cover so I seal the stones every few years which i think helps minimize deck drag. I keep an eye on the ropes and occasionally adjust them as they stretch over time. Hope this helps.

 

[chem geek]

Wow, 6K to replace the cover? Fortunately, Pool Covers, Inc. who installed my cover has a pro-rated cover warrantee which is full through 3 years so when my cover degrades over 3-4 years I get it replaced for labor-only at around $800. (Pool Cover Specialists likewise has a 7-year pro-rated warrantee for their covers.) Even if the cover were to last for 7 years so that the warrantee was exhausted, it would be nowhere near 6K for a replacement. Sounds like Coverstar has pretty high prices so it's a good thing you found DIY alternatives.