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Thread: TA not changing

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    TA not changing

    I just opened my pool, installed a new SWG and am trying to get my water balanced. Just tested and here are my numbers:

    FC 1.2
    TC 1.3
    PH 7.5
    TA 63
    CH 350
    CYA 10
    Salt - 3200ppm
    water temp 56

    I have added 8lbs of baking soda so far to try to get TA to rise but this amount has not affected my TA reading at all. Should I go ahead and keep adding until it changes? Do I need to get it to at least 80? I have not added any borates. Should I do this first?

    Thanks,

    JD
    20x44 IG with vinyl liner - 34,000 Gal.
    AutoPilot SWG
    Coverpool auto cover
    Hayward 1.5HP Northstar pump
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter w/glass media
    Raypak Digital 250K BTU heater
    Arctic Tundra Ultra Spa

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
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    Re: TA not changing

    With an SWG, generally you do want to keep the TA a bit lower to help avoid pH issues. Given that you have a vinyl liner, I think your numbers are fine where they are.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
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    Re: TA not changing

    What was your TA prior to adding the baking soda and how long did you wait (and circulate the water) after adding the baking soda before you tested again? My experience in adding baking soda to raise TA in my pool has been that it takes a couple of days for my test results to fully reflect the addition. I wouldn't add any more baking soda at this time. Wait and see what it does.

    Don't add borates until you get your TA where you want it because it will be tougher to adjust the TA after your borates have been added.
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
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    Re: TA not changing

    Read about water balance with SWG on this site. You'll want to get your CYA level higher than your current 10.
    15X30 AGP, Lomart beaded liner;
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    Mineral Springs (Aquatrol) SWCG, Rigid PVC plumbing, 2 inch
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: TA not changing

    What test are you using that gives you a TA level of 63? The reliable TA tests tend to only read out in multiples of 10.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: TA not changing

    Thanks for all of the replies. These are close to my starting numbers on Monday. I added the baking soda on Monday morning when TA measured 63 as well. It has been about 48 hours with the pump circulating. If TA in the 60's is ok with my vinyl liner I just may leave it as is if that is the consensus. Reading through the SWG water balance recommendation I did see that 60-90 is the recommended level. I just did not know if I would be ok on the low end of that range.

    I know the CYA is low and am adding it via a couple of socks in the returns. This is going to take some time as I have a lot of it to add per the calculator. I will just wait to add any borates to the water.

    Thanks again,

    JD
    20x44 IG with vinyl liner - 34,000 Gal.
    AutoPilot SWG
    Coverpool auto cover
    Hayward 1.5HP Northstar pump
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter w/glass media
    Raypak Digital 250K BTU heater
    Arctic Tundra Ultra Spa

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: TA not changing

    Jason,
    I have a LaMotte ColorQ Pro7 liquid tester. I have re-checked it a couple times and the reading varies a bit 62-65.

    JD
    20x44 IG with vinyl liner - 34,000 Gal.
    AutoPilot SWG
    Coverpool auto cover
    Hayward 1.5HP Northstar pump
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter w/glass media
    Raypak Digital 250K BTU heater
    Arctic Tundra Ultra Spa

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: TA not changing

    I had added some dichlor early this morning to bump my CL level. I also refilled the socks with another 4lbs of stabilizer and just retested. Here are my new numbers.

    FC 4
    TC 4.2
    PH 7.2
    TA 71
    CH 315
    CYA 20

    Looks like I should be able to go ahead and startup the SWG and continue to add stabilizer until I get to 70-80. Once I have everything running smoothly I will add borate to the water in a week or two.

    Thanks,

    JD
    20x44 IG with vinyl liner - 34,000 Gal.
    AutoPilot SWG
    Coverpool auto cover
    Hayward 1.5HP Northstar pump
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter w/glass media
    Raypak Digital 250K BTU heater
    Arctic Tundra Ultra Spa

  9. Back To Top    #9
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: TA not changing

    Keep in mind it can take 5-7 days for the CYA to fully dissolve and register on tests - so don't test too often or you'll just waste reagent. IF you calculated carefully, then assume your level is whatever you targeted, and adjust your FC levels appropriately. Remember, Dichlor contains CYA too so use the "Effects of Adding Chemicals" section of the pool calculator to determine how much the Dichlor addition will raise your CYA.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: TA not changing

    Quote Originally Posted by jdskycaster
    I have a LaMotte ColorQ Pro7 liquid tester. I have re-checked it a couple times and the reading varies a bit 62-65.
    They are usually fairly good. That isn't one of the really problematic ones I was worried you were using.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: TA not changing

    Thanks for clarifying that. Since I purchased the ColorQ I have had fairly good confidence in it. I did have a chance to stop by one of my local pool supply stores and their results were interesting:

    TDS 3700
    CYA - Not Tested
    FC 2.1
    TC 2.1
    PH 7.5
    TA 134
    Total Hardness - 240
    Salt 2500

    The TA number is a bit confusing. Not sure I believe it could be that high. Any thoughts?

    JD
    20x44 IG with vinyl liner - 34,000 Gal.
    AutoPilot SWG
    Coverpool auto cover
    Hayward 1.5HP Northstar pump
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter w/glass media
    Raypak Digital 250K BTU heater
    Arctic Tundra Ultra Spa

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: TA not changing

    Pool store test results are generally suspect. They can be just fine or wildly off. Unless you have experience with that store, there is no telling which it will be.

    On the other hand, you have reason to suspect the TA result from the ColorQ.

    There are really only two ways I can come up with to resolve the question. One would be to get additional TA test results from other sources. If several tests agree, that is probably the correct value. The other would be to try to make a test solution of known TA level using distilled water and baking soda and measure that with the ColorQ. Neither approach is especially easy.

    The other way to deal with this situation is to accept that you don't really know what the TA level is and just not worry about it too much. There is no indication that the TA level is too low. And mildly high TA levels are not a serious problem.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: TA not changing

    Maybe a stupid question but I didn't see it addressed above...

    Have you added any acid since the baking soda? If so, how much?
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: TA not changing

    Jason,
    Thanks for the response. I do not place a lot of trust in the pool store readings (except for those that were fairly close to mine). This store uses a test strip optical reader which I am sure in most cases is fine but they have tens of bottles of strips on their shelf and every time I have been in there to get a quick test the person doing the testing grabs any old bottle off the shelf. I have not asked but sometimes wonder how old some of those bottles of strips actually are. Sometimes their tests seem good other times they are way off. QC at most of these stores does not appear to be a strong point. Sometimes they have a kid doing the testing and I am sure he has not even been through basic high school chemistry yet

    To respond to the question regarding adding any acid. I have not. I did add dichlor this morning which resulted in a slightly lower PH reading. I will take Jason's advice and just leave the TA alone for now.

    Thanks to all for responding and helping met out.

    Best Regards,

    JD
    20x44 IG with vinyl liner - 34,000 Gal.
    AutoPilot SWG
    Coverpool auto cover
    Hayward 1.5HP Northstar pump
    Hayward 244T Sand Filter w/glass media
    Raypak Digital 250K BTU heater
    Arctic Tundra Ultra Spa

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