Ammonia Treatment Options

[aho.lwi]

It looks like my friend has a pool with an ammonia problem, would it be possible to actually use monopersulfate as possible means of a cure?

Test Results are as follows:

Ammonia 3ppm
FCl 0ppm
CC 0.5ppm
pH 7.5
TA 60 ppm
CYA 0ppm

 

[aho.lwi]

Further to that i also notice he was using mangesium sulphate in with his SWG, he told me the pool contractor specified that he use this, any idea why?

 

[dmanb2b]

looks like the CYA converted to ammonia during the offseason...Add some CYA and start bring the water up to shock level...will take lots of chlorine

 

[teapot]

As monopersulfate is a more powerful oxidiser than chlorine it will combine with the ammonia faster and should bring about a swifter cure. Another advantage with monopersulfate is it does not require CYA which allows you to concentrate on the problem at hand.
Downside maybe the cost, I can buy large quantities of MPS at a reasonable cost but that doesn't seem to be the case everywhere.

Good luck

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I agree, usually MPS is more expensive than bleach/liquid chlorine, but if it requires more chlorine to oxidize...it could be a toss up?

Edit:

According to this post, chlorine is still cheaper (unless you can find a super-cheap source...)
http://www.troublefreepool.com/opening-a-pool-to-high-chlorine-demand-ammonia-t6711.html

 

[aho.lwi]

We can get MPS realtively cheap from where im from $3.5 to the kilo, its not Oxone but i believe the quality should still be ok.

What is the treatment procedure if i am going to be using MPS? When should i start adding chlorine since MPS reduces Chlorine.

Further to that the contractor that has been servicing my friends pool is adding Mangesium Sulphate into the pool which has a SWG, does anyone know why they are doing this?

 

[JasonLion]

Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) can make the water feel better and can also make it dramatically easier to remove subsequent calcium scaling. Some people use it to make it easier to clean SWG cells that are constantly getting calcium scaling. Of course, it is better to adjust your chemistry to avoid calcium scaling altogether than it is to have to clean it off (easier or not).

 

[aho.lwi]

Jason,

Does Epsom salt actually add chlorine to the pool, i noticed that my friend is only adding Epsom? Doesnt adding any salt such as NaCl help in the feel of the water. Is there any difference adding Epsom over sodium chloride?

THanks

 

[chem geek]

Chlorine will oxidize the ammonia completely within a few hours, even with CYA in the water (unless there's a LOT of CYA in the water) and it is a whole lot cheaper than MPS. Usually MPS is around 3 times as expensive as bleach or chlorinating liquid or Cal-Hypo.

So that you can compare pricing, one pound of 43% MPS (the usual concentration for Oxone) in 10,000 gallons is equivalent to 2.4 ppm FC of chlorine in terms of how much it can oxidize. I get 12.5% chlorinating liquid from my pool store for $3.29 per gallon (including tax) so to get 2.4 ppm FC in 10,000 gallons that requires 24.6 fluid ounces so costs 63 cents. One pound of MPS is 0.4536 kilo which you say is $3.50 per kilo so that's $1.59 for the same equivalent oxidizing amount or about 2.5 times more expensive -- so yes, your MPS is less expensive than most, but still far more expensive than using chlorine.

Also, the MPS noted above increases sulfates by 7.5 ppm while the amount of chlorine increases chloride (after the chlorine is used up) by 4.0 ppm.

When I had bacteria convert CYA into ammonia in my own pool, I used chlorinating liquid to get rid of it. It would have cost me a LOT more if I had used MPS. See this thread for more details about my experience.

By the way, I'm not sure what was meant by "MPS reduces chlorine". It doesn't remove chlorine, but perhaps you meant that it reduces the need for as much chlorine for oxidation since MPS can oxidize bather waste (or ammonia) as well. It is not a strong sanitizer, however, so you still need chlorine anyway for that and would just add chlorine to maintain an FC level even if you were using MPS (this assumes you've gotten rid of the ammonia first). Anyway, I wouldn't use MPS to oxidize ammonia unless you had no choice or just preferred to spend more money.

 

[JasonLion]

You can't use epson salt instead of regular salt with a SWG, there isn't any chlorine in epson salt. You could use magnesium chloride, but there really isn't much point to doing that.

Epsom salts have a distinct effect on the water feel from salt, so adding both of them will have a different effect than salt alone.

Keep in mind that it is possible to get magnesium stains on the pool if you add too much epsom salt, or magnesium chloride.

 

[aho.lwi]

My friend doesnt have time available to spend monitoring and adjusting Cl lvls, so i thought it might be better if he just threw in MPS and add chlorine straight after to avoid the hassle.

Hopefully that will allow for a Cl residual within the 1 -3ppm range while the MPS takes effect in brurning the ammonia? Am i right to say this?

BTW what effect does sulphate have in pool water?

 

[aho.lwi]

What does mangesium stains look like?

 

[chem geek]

When you are clearing ammonia, you don't just raise FC to shock levels because initially you simply can't. You just keep adding chlorine until you start to get readings of FC and then you can try to maintain it. MPS is no better with this since you have to keep adding MPS until you get some sort of reading as well. It's just more expensive.

 

[JasonLion]

The stains can be various shades in the pink/red/black family. They start out as faint discolorations and eventually build up to more or less sold color/black.

Sulphates have almost no effect at low levels. At rather high levels they can cause damage to SWG cell plates and plaster.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Hopefully that will allow for a Cl residual within the 1 -3ppm range

Remember, FC levels are based on your CYA level -refer to the CYA chlorine chart. 1-3 may not be what is required.