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Thread: No hand grenade required, but still need some help. (leak?)

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    No hand grenade required, but still need some help. (leak?)

    New Guy, here.

    First, specs are in my sig.

    Second, I've owned this pool for three years and never had this problem.

    Third, I'm about 1.5 seconds away from putting a hand grenade in my pool.

    The story:

    I was incredibly busy in January and February and left the pool pretty much unattended for about six weeks. Green algae ensued. No problem. Shocked it with chlorine (liquid 10% stuff) and within minutes the pool was blue again. Yay! This was not my first time dealing with algae, so I knew it would take a couple of days for the water to fully clear up. I brushed it regularly, vacuumed to waste what I could see (and blind vacuumed the known spots for accumulation), and made sure the water stayed balanced.

    Today, the water looks exactly the same as it did two days after I shocked the algae: the shallow end is relatively clear (I can see the bottom), but the deep end simply refuses to clear up. I cannot see the last three feet or so of the deep end and its driving me nuts.

    Pics:

    Shallow end:


    Deep end:


    Why is it driving me nuts? Because its been three weeks and nothing has changed.

    Now, we're having a massive pine pollen invasion right now, but its nothing that hasn't happened every spring before this and this cloudiness hasn't been an issue. I was swimming in it last Easter, in fact.

    I use bicarbonate for TA, borax for raising pH, muriatic acid to lower pH, CYA and 10% liquid chlorine (I get it cheap onbase) and nothing else as of late. I used to use dichlor for shocking but switched to liquid this year (as a result of reading about BBB on Ben's website that doesn't allow registration )

    Regardless, here are my most current test results using what I've got. I have a somewhat basic drop-based test kit. I only use strips to test for CYA since my kit only does CC, FC, TA, pH, and acid demand. My FC test results will be estimated since my kit only registers up to 5 ppm. I can only infer by the intensity of the color as to what my actual chlorine levels are at this point. I'll definitely know when they come back down, though.

    I've also been running the pump and filter 24/7, BTW. I've only backwashed once since the pressure hasn't really changed much. I have a pressure gauge, but it decided to stop working for no reason this winter. Besides, I can tell when it needs backwashing by feeling the pressure at the jets.

    Anyways, the test numbers:

    pH: 7.6
    FC: at least 10 ppm (I put four gallons of 10% in last night) and holding.
    TA: 140 ppm
    CYA: ~40-50

    Based on my limited knowledge, my three remaining options are to:

    - try to do a partial drain/replace of the water.
    - call someone out here and pay them $65 to do what I could do myself if I just knew what was wrong.
    - employ the aforementioned hand grenade.

    Thanks in advance for the help. I tried to provide as much info as I could to make the answers a little less confusing and a little more helpful.
    Pool Specs: 18x36 (~ 24,000 gal) IG vinyl w/ chlorinated water and 75 GPM sand filter with a 1 HP pump.

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Honestly, if you cant measure FC above 5 ppm, you really dont know what your chlorine level is. Your shock level is around 16 given a CYA level of 40. You need to bring your FC up to ~16 and hold it there until your pool clears. Best thing is to get a FAS-DPD kit. It will measure FC up to 50 ppm. It's really the only way to go about shocking your pool properly.
    Read this article on shocking your pool

    pool-school/shocking_your_pool
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Could the excessive amounts of pine pollen be causing this? It happens every spring, but it seems unusually bad this year. It was so bad this past weekend that the horizon actually looked yellow.

    The only reason I hesitate to chlorinate even more is because I've never had to use even half this much chlorine to shock.

    However, I've never had green algae like I did this past winter, either. The water wasn't swampy, but it was definitely almost sentient.

    Here's what the side of the pool looks like less than two hours after brushing:



    And just to show what everything else looks like:



    I think that last pic pretty much sums it up, lol. :gun in mouth:
    Pool Specs: 18x36 (~ 24,000 gal) IG vinyl w/ chlorinated water and 75 GPM sand filter with a 1 HP pump.

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    I have to agree with the previous poster regarding your test kit. If you can't read your levels, then you are just guessing. Two kits that give accurate results and are used by many of the members on this forum are the TF100 or the Taylor K-2006 (not the the K-2005).

    The TF100 kit is available at the following link and is (usually) the better deal of the two:
    http://tftestkits.net/Test-Kits-c4/
    27K gal, IG vinyl, 1.5 HP pump, 24" sand filter, Goldline Aqua Plus SWG

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    I'd consider using a cheap clarifier. It can work wonders on the really fine stuff. Not a cure all, but when the pool is like that, it can be helpful.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    I'd consider using a cheap clarifier. It can work wonders on the really fine stuff. Not a cure all, but when the pool is like that, it can be helpful.
    I actually used a clarifier a couple of weeks ago with no change as well as a "drop out" flocculant that produced moderate amounts of sediment on the bottom, but still no dramatic improvement in the clarity.
    Pool Specs: 18x36 (~ 24,000 gal) IG vinyl w/ chlorinated water and 75 GPM sand filter with a 1 HP pump.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Honestly I don't think you have finished shocking the pool. If you have been using dichlor for 3 years I would almost guarantee that your CYA is over 100 unless you regularly drain and refill the pool. Do not trust the guess strips! Prior to last July I used powdered shock in my pool for 4 years. It got to the point where I could not keep the pool clear of algae and used 3-4 bags of shock at a time! After I found TFP and got a good test kit, my CYA measured over 200 when the guess strip had been showing 30-50! If you can find a pool store that tests for CYA using a drop test take a sample to them and have it tested. How much chlorine you need is dependent on the level of CYA you have.

    Clarifier won't help until the algae is all dead.
    TFP Moderator
    Helpful links: TF Test Kits,TFP Pool School, PoolMath
    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    I have no comment b/c I am a noob myself and have major pool issues of my own but wanted to say I love your sense of humor! A couple weeks ago I asked if pouring tequila into my pool may help or if I should just continue to drink it myself.
    22,000 gal IG Pool & Spa, Fountain and Spa Spillway, Penatair IC-40 SWCG, Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump, Cartridge, Antigua Blue Wet-Edge

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    The only way you can take control of your pool once and for all is to get one of the recommended kits. Then you won't be guessing and you can truly confirm if your FC is holding (and then only way to do that is with the FAS-DPD test). Then if you confirm the FC is holding you can rule out organics consuming the chlorine.

    Have you opened up the filter to see if the sand is channelled?
    You can try a little DE in the filter, to help improve the clarity. Instructions are in Pool School. But neither of these ideas will matter if your FC isn't really holding. (test kit )

    Welcome to TFP! We will help you get this straight, I promise!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Opening up the filter is a last resort. I replaced all the piping last summer, but a design change in the valve (which I also replaced) ruined my completely awesome quick connect/disconnect system that I had designed. I would have to cut and replace piping and I simply don't have the funds for that at the moment.

    I will look into one of the kits, although it might have to wait a week or two. I've already consumed my pool budget for this pay period and then some because of this nonsense.

    EDIT: I don't mean to sound dismissive to any of you. Frustration's a mutha, ya know?
    Pool Specs: 18x36 (~ 24,000 gal) IG vinyl w/ chlorinated water and 75 GPM sand filter with a 1 HP pump.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    I hear ya and I understand your frustration. (Been there, done that...)
    Just don't pay someone $65 to come out when you can use that money towards a kit.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    FC: at least 10 ppm (I put four gallons of 10% in last night) and holding.
    I understand your frustration. Based on what we see on this forum canstantly, there is a 95% or greater chance your issue is inadequate chlorine levels. Youu put in enough to get to about 15ppm....I doubt you have anything like that now.

    I assume you are running your pump 24/7 and cleaning/backwashing as necessary. If so, about the only thing that can be clouding your pool is algae (it does not have to be a green pool for you to have it).

    I sell test kits so I have an obvious agenda but most folks on this forum who have a really good kit will tell you it is the single most important weapon in the battle to keep your pool sparkling.

    Right now, you are guessing at the problem. If you are not ready to buy, get the results from a pool store that will test for FC above 5ppm (at least) and test for CC's as well.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    its so nice to see someone that tries to stay with in there budget and doesn't just pull out the credit cards.... Anyway when you get the money, please buy one of the test kits. Its not really hard at all to test your water and correct what you need to do... Please ask lots and lots of Questions, thats what everyone is here for... don't pull the trigger yet...
    live in eastern washington state
    18x36, Vinyl inground 24k
    Hayward 1 hp filter pump
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    24" sand filter, polaris 280 with booster pump.

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    TF-Test Kit! TF-Test Kit! TF-Test Kit!


    Good Luck and get that TF-Test Kit!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Lingbowfosho,

    Here in NC we have just as much pollen as you and probably more, I wish I had a pic to show you, but right now I don't. I am having the exact same problem as you. So, I took a water sample to the local pool stealer and they tested my water. I don't have enough chlorine in to shock the pool. So I plan on putting in another gallon of Bleach to shock. Oh, don't tell the pool stealer you are using bleach. They willl tell you every reason why you shouldn't. But surprisingly enough with my BBB method... The water chemestry was perfect!
    93mastercraft - Aqua Leader Reflexion 21' round 54" high above ground pool. This is not a $399.00 Pool! Wedding cake steps, Haywood 1.5 pump/sand filter. If I'd thought taking care of a pool was this easy, I'd owned one a long time ago!

  16. Back To Top    #16
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    I had a similar issue last year and was trying to use test strips as my guage. I bit the bullet and bought the proper TF Test Kit, and sure enough I was not shocking the pool even close to the right levels. Once I had my shock levels right and maintained, it really took 3-4 days tops to get the pool clear.
    Alan
    30ft AGP
    2hp pump
    TFTestkits ,Pool Calculator, Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    OK I sent the beloved wife to the pool place (Pinch A Penny Pools) to get the water tested. Its a major pain to get the water tested there because its nearly a half hour away. I live in a somewhat small town with no pool stores, so getting the water tested on a regular basis is a one-hour round trip. I know, I know: even more reason to get a better kit at home.

    Anyways, she didn't have them get a CC reading , but I have a feeling that the OTHER readings will make that omission a moot point:

    pH - 7.6 (I had the same reading)
    FC - 5.0 ppm (I only thought it was holding above 10)
    TA - 140 (right on par with what my kit showed)

    .....and here's the kicker:

    CYA - 100

    In my defense, I was never confident in the strips. They were just better than nothing.

    Now, here's where I need some clarification. According to the CYA/Chlorine chart on this site, I need to get the shock FC up to.................39? And the target FC should be 12.0?

    Assuming that enough chlorine exists in the galaxy to get my pool up to 39 ppm, am I going to have to try to maintain the FC at 12.0 from now on? Forever? OR...... will the CYA eventually subside, leaving me with a non-mutating goal FC of 5-ish? Lets hope that its the latter, because my wallet and my DNA can't handle this 39 and 12 craziness.

    So, even though part of me wants to dump in 25,000 gallons of chlorine and call it good, I know that the right thing to do is get a kit first. You guys have already got me ed

    Despite all of our noobish issues, at least we both knew what to do when the Pinch A Penny guy said that all we need is some clarifier and calcium: Laugh. "Sure thing, buddy. Here's a big 'ol , just for you".
    Pool Specs: 18x36 (~ 24,000 gal) IG vinyl w/ chlorinated water and 75 GPM sand filter with a 1 HP pump.

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Most common CYA test only run up to 100. So your CYA level maybe above 100! I would recommend that you drain at least 50% of your pool water and refill.
    7,500 gal, IG pool, L shape 22' x 15', 1.5 hp pump, cartridge filter, AquaPlus SWG/Controller, Pebble-Tec liner.

  19. Back To Top    #19
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    First, how confident are you that the pool store's CYA number is accurate? How did they perform the test? My local PS uses test strips that are then read by a computer. I never trusted their numbers much.

    Now to answer your question, the CYA isn't likely to go down on it's own. About the only way to get it down to a reasonable level is to replace some of the water. To get from 100ppm to 50ppm, that's a 50% replacement. You probably don't want to replace all of that at one time. Replacing 1/3 of your water should drop your CYA down to around 66ppm. Replacing another 1/4 should get you down to 50ppm.
    24' AG Round (vinyl replaced 0909) - 13500 gal - Sand Dollar Filter (150lb) - Dynamo DYNII-N1-1 1HP - Hayward HP380 Heat Pump - TF-100.
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  20. Back To Top    #20
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Stop me from putting a hand grenade in my pool (cloudy)

    Their test kit is probably a dpd test kit and only goes as high as 5. Who knows what your reading really is.

    I agree, a partial drain and refill is your only option (if you trust the accuracy of the pool store's test), it may be correct, and it may be higher.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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