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Thread: Pool specs - advice requested

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    Pool specs - advice requested

    My wife and I met with a pool guy this weekend in Northern VA. Here's what he proposed based on our desires:

    700 sq ft
    3' - 8' 6" deep
    41' 9" long x 18’ 7” wide
    1.5 HP Pump (upgrade from standard)
    Diatomaceous Earth filter
    Purifier - Ozinator & Clear Vision Purifier
    Polaris 380 Pool Cleaner w/booster pump
    Floor System - Solar Recirculating System
    Finish - Dark Marble Plaster
    2 Deluxe Skimmers & 2 Returns to Pool
    Tumbled Stone Coping
    LED light
    Diving Board
    4' Swimout
    Tanning Ledge


    I'd love to hear from the pros on what is right and what is wrong with this list. (I asked a similar question in the SWG forum because as I understood it, he was suggesting only using an Ozinator for water purification). Anyhow, I'd love to hear some feedback on what I should change.

    Thanks!
    Bart
    700 sq. ft./30,000 gal, gunite pool; 48 SF DE filter; 1.5 HP pump; Salt Water Generator; Solar Heat

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    I would change.....

    1. The pump. 1.5 hp is too big for that pool. A much better choice would be a 1hp 2-speed or variable speed.

    2. Purifier - It will not help you. Drop it.

    3. Floor system - they sound good on paper but few work well and are a common source of problems. I would skip it entirely. The Polaris 380 is perfectly adequate for keeping your pool spotless.

    4. My assumption is you've considered the diving board carefully. They take up a huge space (depthwise) in the pool. Many folks opt not to have a diving end but I'm sure you have discussed that.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Thanks! The actual area is 708 sq ft, not 700, but I doubt that makes a difference.

    He made a point of upgrading the pump to 1.5 HP from whatever their standard is. So I'm confused as to why it's too big? Is he just trying to sell me a more expensive pump?

    Also, if I drop the purifier, do I need to replace it with something?

    Thanks again,
    Bart
    700 sq. ft./30,000 gal, gunite pool; 48 SF DE filter; 1.5 HP pump; Salt Water Generator; Solar Heat

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Matching a pump to the size of the pool (and to the filter) is reasonably important. Pumps too big are troublesome and expensive and will overpower a typical filter (What size filter did he spec?) There's lot's of info on this forum concerning oversized pumps.

    Importantly, that he/she "upgraded" you by increasing your pump to a size too big bothers me.....frankly, he/she should know better.

    Purifier - I'm not even sure what a "purifier" is but you should sanitize your pool with chlorine.......either through an SWG or some other method of putting chlorine in your pool. It's really the only logical, satisfactory answer. Can you give us more info on the "purifier"?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Thanks again. I'll have to contact him and get some of these questions answered.

    When we talked, he did mention that it was possible to have an oversized pump that would overpower the filter. He was responding to my question about making the pump even bigger. You know, if 1.5 HP is good, than 2.0 must be better!!
    700 sq. ft./30,000 gal, gunite pool; 48 SF DE filter; 1.5 HP pump; Salt Water Generator; Solar Heat

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    You know, if 1.5 HP is good, than 2.0 must be better!!
    I understand perfectly....I had the same misconception and apparently the quote guy does, too.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    There are several issues to consider to select the correct pump size. If you do not add a lot of extras like fountains, floor cleaners, and have an average size pool you don't need all that hp to move the water adequately. If you are pumping water up hill or up to roof mounted solar panels you may need a pump with that kind of power. You didn't say how large the filter is, and putting a pump with too much oomph for the filter will shorten the life of the grids. That being said not all pumps are created equal. What brand and model is the pump being offered? That information will also help determine the correct pump and filter for the pool.

    As far as the sanitizing system being offered, you would still need to add chlorine to keep the water safe. If you are looking for an automated system you may want to look into liquid chlorine dispensers such as The Chlorinator, or a salt water chlorine generator.
    TFP Moderator
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    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    This is bound to stir up a bit, but..I'd skip the DE filter and get a sand filter. DE looks good on paper and all, but a sand filter will be less hassle and give you fewer issues.
    Ok, nobody throw eggs, please
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart
    You know, if 1.5 HP is good, than 2.0 must be better!!
    I made this very same mistake just a few months ago. I switch from a 2HP down to a 3/4HP pump and I'm much, much happier.
    Clearwater, Florida

    12,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool
    Pentair Whisperflo 3/4HP Pump
    Pentair CCP420 420sq/ft Cartridge Filter
    Pentair Intellibrite 5G 120V Pool Light

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Thanks everybody! Keep 'em coming!

    I'm glad someone (zea3) mentioned solar pannels. I didn't mention, but that's part of the plan.....use solar heat without any supplemental heating. Perhaps that's the reason for the 1.5 HP pump? And while we're on the subject, does anyone have any comments about solar heating. We have a full southern exposure with no trees. That side of the house is in the sun all day long.
    700 sq. ft./30,000 gal, gunite pool; 48 SF DE filter; 1.5 HP pump; Salt Water Generator; Solar Heat

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    I hit submit too early.....why do you prefer sand over DE?

    The pool guy suggested DE and from what I've read (very little) DE will remove the smallest sized particles that other types can't catch.
    700 sq. ft./30,000 gal, gunite pool; 48 SF DE filter; 1.5 HP pump; Salt Water Generator; Solar Heat

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Sand filter owners will vow that sand is the best.
    DE filters will insist nothing is superior.
    Cartridge filters will assert that anything other than cartridge is just silly.

    This article
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...ter_comparison
    tells you about them.

    If you do go with an SWG, IMHO then cart is the best choice, as the chemistry levels will be more stable since there is no backwashing of the filter.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    There is no "best" filter. Different kinds of filters have different advantages and disadvantages. Sand is the simplest to use and is the least good at filtering. DE is the best at filtering but takes the most work to maintain. Cartridge is in between.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    A sand filter will take out particles down to ~ 30 microns, a cart to maybe 10-20, and a DE, properly coated and maintained maybe as low as <5 microns?
    I guess it depends on how particular you are about your water. Some people have heart failure if they see one little spec in the water. Others don't care if there are a few particle floating around. Me, I figure its an outdoor body of water. As long as the water is sanitized and there aren't big chunks floating around, it good. 30 microns is honestly really small. Sure, if i turn on my light and look at the water at night, there are a few particles floating around. I would rather have the ease of the sand filter. As far as backwashing and changing the chemistry, there is some truth to that, obviously. But, in my experience, its partly what I would call an old wives tale. Sure, you back wash a lot,and add fill water, you can dilute the salt level if you have a SWG, but salt is 40 pounds for 8 bucks, so what have you lost, eh,. not much. Only other thing that will be affected might be your stabilizer level, but thats not a big deal to add either. And, contrary to popular belief, you don't dump that much water during a back wash.

    A cart is a bit more of a PITA, but it doesn't nee to be cleaned that often and it will filter smaller particles.
    DE is a royal PITA. You have to add DE every time you backwash, if the grids are not coated just right, it doesn't work properly, and again i say its a PITA! If <30 micron particles bother you, then go with a cart. Sand or cart, but, IMO, ditch the DE.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    This subject gets rehashed every Spring but that's okay as we have thousands of new members each Spring that may not have seen the opinions. Have at it! (with good manners, of course )
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Even with a sand filter, nothing that you can see with the naked eye should get through. The difference has to do with a more subtile question of just how "sparkling" the water is. Many people can tell the difference, many people can't tell the difference between sand and DE.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Thanks for all the input folks. I have some additional information.

    The filter is 60 square feet DE. Does a 1.5 HP pump with that size filter and a solar system make more sense or is it oversized?
    700 sq. ft./30,000 gal, gunite pool; 48 SF DE filter; 1.5 HP pump; Salt Water Generator; Solar Heat

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    You list a "Floor System", which I take to mean an in-floor cleaning system. They often need a somewhat larger pump than you would otherwise need. Just how much larger depends on the specific system. If you don't have an in-floor cleaning system, and there aren't any water features that you haven't mentioned, then a 3/4 HP full rated pump (or 1 HP up rated/max rated) would be fine for anything but the very largest solar setups.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Pool only (no spa)?

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    Re: Pool specs - advice requested

    Quote Originally Posted by simicrintz
    Pool only (no spa)?
    Correct! Just a pool.
    700 sq. ft./30,000 gal, gunite pool; 48 SF DE filter; 1.5 HP pump; Salt Water Generator; Solar Heat

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