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Thread: cloudy stream from filter

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    cloudy stream from filter

    Hello all - first post, probably not the last

    I have an in-ground plaster pool that always causes trouble for me. I installed a pentair tagelus 100D sand filter, a Whisperflow 2 speed pump, and a digital controller about 3 years ago. Last year I noticed that a little dirt and debris were coming into the pool as I vacuumed. Recently I have not been able to finish cleaning before the water clouds so much I can't see the bottom.

    The Leslie guy said I either have a broken part at the bottom of the tank, or the filter has channeled?, either way I need to remove all of the sand and replace it. I got as far as cutting the pipes and installing couplers so that I can remove the top and get to the sand.

    I thought I would check with you first to see if this really is the problem and best solution.
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Welcome to the forum!

    How many gallons in your pool?

    There are several possibilities. The filter may have an internal problem and it will be hard to figure out unless you dump the sand so you can look around in there. The center pipe can be seated incorrectly or broken and allow unfiltered back to the pool. Channeling is suggested as a cause but seems to be seldom the issue.

    Your multi-port valve may be letting unfiltered water back to the pool. I would inspect that as a possible cause.

    Does your psi increase while you are vacuuming?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Duraleigh and I were typing at the same time so I'll just agree with him and say that since you didn't say the sand was getting in your pool it's probably not a broken lateral. I'd inspect the multiport first and go from there.


    It helps us if you can put your equipment in your signature. There's a link to the user control panel under the TFP logo at the top of the page. Also if you could let us know where you're located.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    There is something settling to the bottom of the pool - either sand or fine dirt? Sometimes I can see little ripples like you would see at the bottom of a stream.

    What would I look for on the multi-port valve?
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

  5. Back To Top    #5
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Take the top off the multiport valve and check to be sure the spider gasket is intact and not torn or kinked. Also take a look at the center rotating section of the valve and make sure it isn't cracked or broken.

    Getting some debris on the bottom of the pool is normal, but it shouldn't be the very fine sand used in the filter.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    I finally got all of the sand and PEA GRAVEL? out of the tank.

    I did not know there was pea gravel used. It was surrounding the spindles to keep the sand away. Do I need to put some clean pea gravel back before I go with the sand? I do have 600 pounds of #20 silica sand ready to go.

    I did not see any damage to the spindles or center pipe. There is an O ring that was laying above the crows nest that may have fit between the crows nest and pipe. The ring is too large to fit in the slot now; and I can't see what purpose it would serve being there. I can neither find a spot that it may have gone at the top of the pipe. There is the adapter that fits up to the multi-port valve but no groove any where for an O ring. Anyone know where this O ring is supposed to go?

    I have to get into the valve itself to look for any damage there.

    I am ready to refill the gravel and sand and start putting this thing back together.
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

  7. Back To Top    #7
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Pea gravel is often used in the larger sand filters for the bottom third. Pentair says the Tagelus 100D can take either 600 lbs of sand or 150 lbs of pea gravel and 450 lbs of sand. If you do use pea gravel, it should be 1/8” to 1/4” diameter. Using pea gravel can improve the overall efficiency of the system and reduce the chance that a cracked lateral will leak sand into the pool, though it doesn't really make that much difference.

    Either way, there should be 11 1/4" from the top of the sand to the top of the main filter housing when it is full, even if that means using a slightly different amount of sand.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Thanks JasonLion.

    I found the owners manual and saw that I could use either one. I used all sand since I already had 600 pounds. Also, I wanted to see if it would make a difference.

    I have it put back together and so far so good.
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    I have noticed that the pump will not move the water at low speed; and kicks out a lot of air when I start up in high speed. On high speed there are small air bubbles coming from the returns. My guess is that air is getting in the unions I installed when I changed out the sand.

    Should I use the same sealant that I use one the filter basket lid on the union O rings and threads?
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    I don't think the air is getting in from the unions you installed unless you installed one on the pump suction. The unions you installed should be on the discharge side of the pump so if there were any leaks you'd be leaking water out not air in. Are you seeing air in the pump basket? A very common place to have an air leak is the pump strainer basket lid. Lube it with silicon o-ring lube and put it back on.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    My filter is a top feed, so I had to cut the pump, return, and waste to get to the sand. I put unions on all three pipes. I was thinking last night that I probably should have put the unions below the waterline of the filter.

    So, that being said, I should put the O ring lube on the unions?
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Nearly all unions have o-rings and any o-rings you find should get some silicone lube. You should also check that the two sides of the unions are meeting cleanly. If the two sides don't met flush they usually won't seal properly. Sometimes something shifts and cants the two ends relative to each other. If that happens you have to move things around to get the two ends to line up again before they will seal properly.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Quote Originally Posted by randelli
    I have noticed that the pump will not move the water at low speed; and kicks out a lot of air when I start up in high speed. On high speed there are small air bubbles coming from the returns. My guess is that air is getting in the unions I installed when I changed out the sand.

    Should I use the same sealant that I use one the filter basket lid on the union O rings and threads?
    If you let it run for 5-10 minutes will the air stop? I've not yet had occasion to change my sand, but I drained the filter for the winter and when I started it up again it seems like it took a good five minutes to blow the last of the air out. Although I do have a side-mount filter and a lot of pipe (~50' each way plus in-floor cleaner) so that could just be me.
    20,000 Gallon kidney sort of a sand filtered gunite in ground pool w/ hot tub.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    It is a constant bubbler. I will put the lube on it and see what happens.
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    I cleaned and lubed the pump filter basket and also the unions. It all appears to be working now.
    19,000 gallon, irregular kidney shaped, plaster pool surrounded by (8) cypress, (1) oleander, (3) palm trees, (2) unknown shrubbery
    Pentair Tagelus 100D sand filter, with fresh #20 silica sand, and WhisperFlow 3/4 hp. full rated pump
    Innovative Pools controls with digital timers and remote light switch
    Hayward pool sweep with new gearbox A-Frame & turbine, and pods


    TFP's resident Pool Fool :)

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy stream from filter

    Glad it was that easy for you.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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