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Thread: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Well I have a 30 year old muskin pool that finally died this winter. Cover let loose and sank into the pool. I believe it ripped the liner and bent up the walls. I'll know better in a few days when i rip her down.
    The new pool will be a 24 ft all aluminum Esther Williams. I will use a hayward perflex 40 D.E filter and 1HP hayward powerflow pump along with a hayward 150,000 BTU heater and a chlorine doser.
    I am going with the original pool store that sold and installed the first pool. It lasted 30 years with the original liner so its a no brainer for me.
    They reccomended I use a dual main drain, and manifold system. They offered to help with the first winter close up for free. The main drains can be shut off while swimmers are in the pool which makes me feel a little better with kids.
    The pool is 52 inches tall, so roughly 48 around the edges and the center will be 6 feet deep.
    I just replaced my polaris cleaner and last summer so it is basically new.
    Will be ripping ut the old wood deck as well. Time for an upgrade in size. Looking to build 12 ft by 12 ft, or 16 by 16 ft. Which ever i can get to look the best without sacrificing too much real estate.

    Suggestions and tips would be greatly appreciated!!

    I am ripping all the landscaping around and near the pool will start over from scratch since its very outdated!!! Some tree's have to go. I hate killing trees but the original home owner put pine trees too close together and gow too big, Plus they drop a ton of debris all over the yard. Bad enough I have to battle 2 full grown silver maples, a couple birch, and 9 foot tall privacy hedges. Probably plant a couple engineered mini flowering fruit trees in the old pines location.
    Pics will come soon, Hope to have the pool built by late april, and deck finished in early may.
    I will post pics of the old girl before I tear her down.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Your old pool had a good run and your original pool store earned your business

    Thank you for saying that you will post lots of pics, before and after.

    Looking forward to your build.
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Well, all I can think of off the top of my head is: If you're expanding your deck, will the pump and filter be beneath it? If so, pay attention to vertical clearance when you need to open the filter.

    I haven't priced it nor investigated it seriously, but I did see "composite" wood at Lowes. It's not totally plastic, but it's not 100% wood, either. The color is molded in. Never worry again about paint, sealer, termites, or slivers in the feet! It might be worth looking into.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    MikeInTN's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    Well, all I can think of off the top of my head is: If you're expanding your deck, will the pump and filter be beneath it? If so, pay attention to vertical clearance when you need to open the filter.

    I haven't priced it nor investigated it seriously, but I did see "composite" wood at Lowes. It's not totally plastic, but it's not 100% wood, either. The color is molded in. Never worry again about paint, sealer, termites, or slivers in the feet! It might be worth looking into.
    I used the Choicedek composite decking for both my patio deck and pool deck. It's pretty pricey, gets really hot when full sun is on it (burn your feet hot), and what they don't tell you is that it will stain and there have been some problems with mold growing on it. Sure, you don't have to seal it and termites won't eat it, but it's not as maintenance-free as they once advertised.
    24' x 52" AGP - approx 13,500 gallons
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Richard and Mike thanks for the info! I have looked at the plastic deck options. I will probably go cedar or pressure treated.
    Heres the dinosaur. Nice baby blue wood pattern. LOL You can see the damage where the ice blow out is.
    Just above the pavers. I removed about 2 tons of concrete pavers and have dumpsters coming early next week. Tree pruning and removal will be late next week after I rip out the pool tues/weds. I'll get some more pics as the work progresses. You can see one of the pines I want to remove to the left. Wife wants to keep one, I have an arborist coming in to tell me if I can save it and co-exist without edison coming in and pruning. Once they do they will pretty much destroy the tree.

    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Ok a few steps taken, Got the cover with 200 lbs of wet smelly leafs off. I cut out the liner and it was very brittle.
    I seen where it ripped at the bottom. The liner was pasts its lifespan 3 times over! Atleast i'll get a little in scrap aluminum for old blue.
    Now to get the bricks and pavers thrown away and get her apart tomorrow. Good weather is in michigan this week.
    80 this friday, and I am getting anxious to get the new pool and deck up. Wish i could start on the deck before the pool is in.


    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    You can see how brittle it was by the shards of liner in the last pic. LOL
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Couple quick pics, All is done removing old blue. Quite the job to do by yourself. The posts on the deck were by far the hardest of the scrap job. Having a sawzall is a livesaver! A must for any deck removal.
    Tree pruning, privacy shrub trimming and a tree or 2 removed next week. Hopefully I can get the pool guy to take a look at the pool and I can ask a few questions on placement. I may bury it and put in a brick paver patio.

    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Well the 2 pine trees are gone and the 9 ft tall hedges are trimmed down to 8 ft. Getting deck plans drawn up and going with a 10'x12' corner wedge shape deck so it gives the most area alongside of the pool. (Between 9 and 12 oclock looking at the pool in the pic.)
    The pool will be in early next week and the installer will be here this weekend or early next week as well, then I can get started on the deck.
    Found a guy that will dig the posts for me for 7 dollars a hole with a minimum of 50 dollars to get him out here.
    I figure there will be 10-12 posts. It will save me from digging 42+ inches to get under the frost line here in michigan.
    You can see that the pool location gets good sun till about 4pm and then it gets covered by the shade of the house and big maple tree.
    I need suggestions on solar heating panel placement. I would like it close to the pool, But not at the expense of having to look at them. If I put them behind the pool I will only get 2-3 hrs of morning sun. If I place them on the garage roof it will give me a crazy amt of head pressure and a run of 30 ft.

    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Wow, the appearance of the yard really changed by the removal of the pines.

    I hope the solar solution is a fairly simple one. Wish I could help.
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Thanks, The trees were little when I moved in about 8 ft tall. When I removed them they were about 10 ft in diameter, and about 25+feet tall. Still just babys for these pines. I hated to cut them down, But clearly they were too big of a tree to have sitting there, and would have just caused problems.
    The yard does look bigger and I am trying to keep the clean look.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    What do you mean by "crazy amount of head pressure"? Do you have an actual number even if it's a guess?

    A 30' run isn't a big deal. Even if they were 20' high, that still isn't too big a deal. You just have to pick the right pump and run large diameter pipes. I don't see a picture showing the garage in relation to the pool location but that would be my first choice of places to put the panels.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Well I figured in all the elbows about 6-8 90's and the garage you can see better in the second pic I posted.
    I would have to run it to the south end of the garage which would be about 24 feet from pool, and counting 5-8 feet from the equipment pad. So counting the 90's,ball valves,unions, ect I guesstimate a head of 35-40 ft.
    This would really curve down the flow at 40ft. I would lose half of the GPM not counting how much restriction the solar heaters have.
    If i can keep the head under 30 feet i can keep a good deal of the flow from the pump. Ideally i would like under 30 feet closer to 20. Is it crazy that I think i can get it under 30ft of head not counting the solar heater panels?? I would hate to get a bigger pump since this is almost new. 1 HP hayward max powerflow 1561
    Thanks a bunch!!
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    After doing the math and figuring that I would need a seperate pump to run the solar heater. I am going to pass on going solar. With the electric to pump water to it gas would still be cheaper. Now getting a 2 speed pump OR Diy'ing a 3 phase motor setup may be a better option for me. With a 3 phase pump and the proper parts needed I can dial the pump from a crawl to full bore,not just 2 speeds. The cost of that would get me about the same price I would pay for a 2 speed pump. Plus the 2 speed pump is 2.0 amps more efficient than the pump I have now. the flow curves are not as good, But I have very little restriction and negates any concerns there.
    My current pump is 10 amps, The 2 speed is 8 amps, and 4 on low. Thats more than half savings on the electric.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    I am not an expert by a long shot, but your estimate of head for the solar panels seems waaaaayy too high. I wouldn't "pass on solar" til you get someone with experience to comment. From seeing some of the other solar setups on this site, it seems that your situation would be a piece of cake.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Thanks, I talked to the pool store where i bought the pool from and he thinks the same thing. The waste of electric per seperate pump would negate any gains by the solar heat. I will pick the pool installers mind about that as well.
    Optimum would be run it on the ground, and have it go straight to the pool with 20 Ft of pressure and the costs would not be so bad since i am running it for the filtration anyways. Natural gas in the summer here is pretty cheap.
    I pay more for running the pump than i do for gas almost by 2 fold.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    You could start a new thread to discuss your solar issues specifically. Might attract more attention.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Well looks like the 2 speed pump is a go, Will make a spread sheet this summer to see the gas and ebills mount up for the pool. Then i can weigh the option of solar out and figure how long it will take me to recoupe the solar panel investment and if it's even worth it.
    With the new pump it has a much better flow curve and the solar is a possability again.
    Good news with the de filter as its pretty clean for me not taking it apart in 10 years, Just about a lb of old DE caked in the fingers. No rips or tears so good there. Its soaking in TSP for a couple days to clean her up like new.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    From our own experience with composite decking, we went with a light gray - we don't have any issues with mold, staining, it doesn't get any hotter than the wood deck attached to our house (which is hotter to stand on) - it is easy to clean and works well all the way around with the pool. This will be our 4th season with it.

    I have to say that I am wowed by how long your pool went - with the same liner!!! Wowie! Hope you have that great of a run with the new pool. Good luck.
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: 24 ft AGP remove old and in with the new.

    Thanks much for the info, I have a guy coming over today to give me some quotes on a deck. Its killing me I can't build it, but work is ramping up and the pool is not in yet. I don't want to have a pool With no deck this summer we use it alot. The pool store owner is giving me some great deals on equipment to cover some of the expense I am out by having someone else build it. Got the new 2 speed at cost, and thinking on some other stuff.
    Wife has her side of the fam over when i am at work in the summer so I don't have to do that kinda stuff on my days off so a deck is a must with the little ones over.
    I know once I go into overdrive at work the pool will come in and get installed.
    New kitchen is in the horizon as well so I want the pool and yard completed.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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