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Thread: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

  1. Back To Top    #1
    whoozer's Avatar
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    Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    I have gone back and forth a number of times and researched til my eyes are crossed. I have a 14500 gallon fiberglass pool. It was a kit when I bought it and it came with a Hayward Super pump 1HP self priming pump and the Hayward Star clear plus cartridge filter. I have had repeated issues with the filter and pump seemingly being too small as it takes me forever to get it completely turned over. It generally takes me 3 weeks to clean it up when opening it in the spring. Should I replace the pump and make it variable speed and get a larger filter? Or do I just need a new filter right now and replace the pump later. They both work fine they just take forever. I also need to clean the filter constantly to bring psi down, it generally runs in the 20+ range shortly after cleaning it. Any suggestions?

    Edit~The filter is a single cartridge unit. Usually takes about 12+ hours to turn over completely. 1.5 inch piping
    14x33 fiberglass freeform
    Variable speed Pentair intelliflo superpump
    420 Clean and Clear Plus cartridge filter.
    pool-school/pool_calculator , http://www.tftestkits.net/

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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    Sounds like the filter is undersized. I have a 10k gallon pool and a 1hp SuperPump that turns it over in about 8 hours or less.. don't remember exactly... may even do it faster, been a while since I calculated it. Difference is... I have a Hayward sand filter that has better throughput than your cartridge filter. If your PSI keeps going up, you may have a filter problem (or just lots of stuff in your water!) :P Maybe someone can give you better filter guidance (larger capacity filter?) or other ideas. BTW, just converted my SuperPump to a 2-speed. It's way quieter and I still have the option of high speed for vacuuming or backwashing. Should save the cost of the new 2-speed motor over the course of a year electric bills. Good luck w/ your pool!
    10,000 IG vinyl liner pool, Hayward sand filter, Hayward SuperPump (converted to 2-speed), BBB user

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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    I'm not intending to give advice here just a report. My filters, old and new are DE but it still pertains to your situation. I just recently > doubled the size of my filter (and added a VF pump so that I can run pump more slowly, and for other reasons, to offer better filtering efficiency). Oh my, what a joy.

    When the old filter was working at its best, because of all the fine debris that is carried in and blown in to my pool, I had to backwash once a week. Clean starting pressure was never below 14 psi at the very best.

    Now the starting psi is 7 and, even filtering out clouds of calcium scale from treatment to remove calcium scale, most of winter, the psi has never gone up more than 5.

    After the initial week of filtering out much of the calcium from scale release from surfaces of pool and then a backwash, the psi has only gone up 3 and it is still in process of clearing the water. If I was still using the old filter (and pump) I would have been backwashing at least once a day. Huge hassle and major waste of water.

    I only waited this long to replace the filter because I just joined TFP last summer and learned so much I realized I didn't have to punish myself any longer with the way-undersized old filter with too much pump for that filter.

    The new filter has been one of the top two things I've ever done for the pool, and me, in 23 years. The other is the new pump.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    When was the last time you hosed off the cartridge? How old is the cartridge? Have you ever soaked it to degrease it? What size Star Clear? What are you trying to clean out of the pool?

    The pump is fine.


    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    whoozer's Avatar
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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    I have 2 filters I rotate. One gets soaked and degreased and the other clean one goes in. The cartridges were new this last summer, but I have always had problems with it cleaning in a timely fashion.
    14x33 fiberglass freeform
    Variable speed Pentair intelliflo superpump
    420 Clean and Clear Plus cartridge filter.
    pool-school/pool_calculator , http://www.tftestkits.net/

  6. Back To Top    #6
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    how big is the cartridge filter?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    Your pump is not too small. Actually a 3/4 hp would do fine on your pool.

    Pool filters are designed to keep clean pools clean.

    If the water is extremely cloudy and/or there is a lot of gunk on the walls and floor, you are asking too much of a filter that is designed to remove very small particles. You mentioned a clean starting pressure 20+ psi. That sounds high. take out the cartridge and restart the pump. if the pressure drops 10-15 psi, your filter is clogged with calcium deposits or oily buildup. As a resuIt you may need a soak in a cartridge cleaning solution which combines grease dissolvers and acid to remove scale deposits. Be careful(wear gloves and goggles and keep a running water hose nearby, lower the cartridge slowly into the solution in case of rapid foaming). Even this may not bring it back to "new" performance. If cleaning was effective,it should register within about 5 psi of the "no cartridge in the tank" psi. If not, buy a new cartridge.

    The psi on the gauge without the filter is very close to what it should be with a new cartridge. If the psi doesn't drop much, may need larger openings on the return fittings. (Contact me if that is the case - there may be other factors at work here).


    Opening your pool brings vision of a crusty swamp to mind. If that is a close description of your pool, there are a variety of ways to deal with it, including my favorite:
    1. remove large debris(lawn chairs, tree branches, soda cans, leaves, plastic bags) with leaf rake and/or leafmaster
    2. aggresive brushing of the walls and floor to loosen up maximum crud.
    3. allow to settle overnight
    4. use floccing agent which may require increasing ph to 8.0 or above before adding the "floc"
    5. let settle, then vacuum to waste. Do not leave filter in tank. Install a tee fitting w/2 valves(after filter tank - one valve to pool returns, other valve to waste) or a 3-way valve if you haven't one), moving vac head slowly enough to avoid stirring things up so much you can't see where you are vacuuming. Repeat #5 if necessary.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by whoozer
    Usually takes about 12+ hours to turn over completely.
    I am wondering why you said that. There isn't any easy way to measure how long a turnover takes. Everything else you describe could come from other issues, unrelated to the pump/filter.

    How long you can go between cartridge cleanings depends greatly on the size of the filter relative to the size of the pool. I don't see you mention which model of filter you have, so it is difficult to tell if frequent cleanings are normal for your setup or not. Likewise, you didn't mention how high you let the PSI gauge go before a cleaning or if your starting filter pressure is about the same that it has always been or has gone up recently.

    Please give us a little more information, and we should be able to give you much more useful answers.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    whoozer's Avatar
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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    Of course 12 hours is an estimation. Please note I'm not a pool guru, I know just enough to get into trouble The model filter is a Hayward C-90-E. I was told to keep the psi under 18 but no matter how much I clean the filter it isn't long before it is in the 20's again. I have removed the filter before and the pressure dropped so I purchased the liquid for cleaning the filters Pheonix filter cleaner. I go through the steps for cleaning. Soaking overnight then spraying off with a higher pressure nozzle. It works for a while but sometimes it can be just 5-6 hours before it starts climbing again.
    The psi valve is also kind of cheap and is on the filter but I'm more looking at the fact that it just doesn't clean very well, and never really did. I'm cleaning the normal stuff, dirt, bugs. I pick out all of the leaves etc ahead of time.
    I'm sorry if I seem moronic but I don't really know what info you needed unless you ask me specifically.
    Would a sand filter possibly work better for this application?
    I am really more trying to trouble shoot before I reopen, all my lines are blown out and if I need replacing I wanted to do it before there is water all through the lines again.
    One thing is the pump is just slightly below the level of the pool. I can take pics tomorrow if the rain subsides. Could that cause circulation issues?
    14x33 fiberglass freeform
    Variable speed Pentair intelliflo superpump
    420 Clean and Clear Plus cartridge filter.
    pool-school/pool_calculator , http://www.tftestkits.net/

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Need guidance on replacement pool equipment

    Sand filters aren't better or worse, they are just different. Your current filter is a little on the small side, but reasonable. It ought to be able to do the job. You might want to try the complete cleaning procedure, as explained here.

    I am not sure what is in "Pheonix filter cleaner", I haven't seen that one before. However, if it is an acid based cleaner, it might be part of the problem. You should never clean with an acid based filter cleaner unless you have already removed all of the oils from the filter with a detergent based cleaner.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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