New (to me) Pool

[kcjonz]

Hello everyone. I found this forum a while back and have been lurking. GREAT information abounds.

I moved into a house last summer and had the neglected 18 x 36 IG w/ vinyl restored.

Liner was gone, full of sludge, frogs, turtles, basically a pond. After months of work it was up and running for 1-2 months before winter.

A frog system is in place and I am looking at switching to BBB.

The pool was open all winter with pump running during freezing conditions. After studying off and on all winter and now that it has started warming up I am ready to get all this under my belt.

I have cleaned any leaves I missed during winter and tested using a PooLife Deluxe 6-Way I picked up.

My readings were as follow:
TC = 0
pH = 7.2
TA = 20
CH = 110
CYA = 0

I've plugged the numbers into The Pool Calculator and have have a couple questions.

What order should I start tackling my issues and should I wait any time between each step.

Thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[duraleigh]

Hey,

Welcome to the forum.

Can you tell us......

City and state in which you live (or your current water temp)

what your pool water looks like?

how many gallons in your pool?

Thanks! You'll get lot's of good help but the info above may have an effect on the advice given. :lol:

 

[kcjonz]

Wow thanks for the fast response!
I have updated my profile to give everyone more details.

I'm just outside Charlotte NC

The pool was cloudy and I added about pound of 73% cal-hypo I already had and it cleared up overnight it is not crystal (I can see the deep end (8.5') intake grate in decent detail)

The pool is around 28,000 gallons according to online calculators.

Thanks

 

[chem geek]

A frog system is in place and I am looking at switching to BBB.

Others can give you more details, but I think you should get the silver level accurately measured for your pool (they might as well test for other metal ions such as copper, iron and manganese as well, if they can). The Frog system uses metal ions (as noted here). Your pH is currently low, but if you switch to BBB and start to raise your pH, you could get metal staining in the pool. That's why it's important to know the level of metals in your pool as you may need to dilute the water or add a metal sequestrant in order to prevent staining.

 

[kcjonz]

A frog system is in place and I am looking at switching to BBB.

I think you should get the silver level accurately measured for your pool (they might as well test for other metal ions such as copper, iron and manganese as well, if they can).

The frog system was only run for 2 months (and off and on through the winter) after a total water fill.

Only one of the "mineral" cartridges. Not to mention the 10-12" of rain we've had.

Do you think metal levels could have gotten out of hand that quickly?

 

[Bama Rambler]

It probably isn't very high yet but I agree with Richard, it's a good idea to get it checked.

If you haven't already, you should remove the mineral pak and leave it out. You can leave the housing in line and just not use it.

If you've been using the Frog bac pac's to chlorinate I'd highly suspect that your CYA level isn't zero. Just an observation.

I also recommend investing in a good test kit.

 

[duraleigh]

Good morning!

As you can tell, froggie chlorinators are not very popular on this forum because of the silver content. I really doubt there is much harm in the short time you had it in the pool but never a bad idea to check it out.

Now, back to your questions...

First, I would raise the FC level to about 2ppm. Do it with Clorox and add it in the evening. It would be fine to go to 4-5ppm and then let it drift down to 2 over a couple of days. It might disappear a little faster than that so test often.

Secondly, I would suggest bringing your CYA up to around 40-50ppm. That'll allow you to hold your chlorine in the pool much longer. The CYA test will take a few days to register on the test so add it and then test for it about four days later...even a little longer is okay.

pH and CH are fine for now.

TA is very likely a testing error, I'd disregard it for now.

Once your CYA is in the pool and showing up on the test, I would shock the pool. That'll get rid of any remaining cloudiness and help sanitize the pool further.

Once the process is complete, hold the FC in a 3-5ppm range for the summer will give you a troublefree pool.

That should get you in pretty good shape. Let us know if you have questions on the shock process.

As already implied, I'd suggest you remove ole' froggie.....he's not helping!!

 

[kcjonz]

Off to Wally world to buy bleach and stabilizer.

I have removed the frog mineral pack. Can I use the reservoir to fed chlorine when I go on vacation?

So I need to pour around 2 G 6% bleach slowly in front of a return line,
I have 6 gallon bottling buckets I use in homebrewing that have a spigot on the bottom.

I was wondering if anyone else has used one of these sitting at the pool's edge to slowly dispense there chemicals consitantly with no risk of splash back.

 

[chem geek]

That's an interesting concept, but might be hard to regulate carefully. I know that some people have tried drilling small holes in the chlorine bottle cap and kept the bottle upright at the bottom of the pool, but any such methods are a bit dicey and without decent circulation could cause higher chlorine levels near the bottle. It's probably OK for plaster pools, but might be dicey for vinyl pools. If someone is frequently away from the pool and has no one to come over and add some chlorine every few days, then using a peristaltic pump or The Liquidator might be better choices.

If you go on vacation for a week, you can certainly use an inline chlorinator designed for Trichlor or a floating feeder for the pucks/tabs. It will increase CYA, but not by too much if you don't go away often. As for the Frog reservoir, I'll let others answer if you can use that in the same way as a traditional inline chlorinator (you wouldn't want to use Frog cartridges in it since they have metal ions).

 

[kcjonz]

That's an interesting concept, but might be hard to regulate carefully.

The valve can be opened anywhere from a drip to full.

I was just thinking of dumping my pre-measured bleach in the bucket and setting it to slightly open so I don't have to kneel there holding the bottle.

 

[duraleigh]

You could certainly do that but you will find it's not really necessary. I choose to put Clorox in my pool thru the skimmer, but either way (skimmer or in front of a return) you do not have to dribble it. It will be diluted almost instantly as you put it in. Mine goes in as quickly as I can pour it from the bottle.

There are several disadvantages to trying the drip concept for long-term chlorination. Innaccuracy, exposure to the sun, clogging of the spout, etc., will most likely make that an unworkable solution.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

You can't use the frog unit with their trichlor bac-pacs without the mineral resevoir in place, and with the way it's designed I don't think traditional tabs can be placed in the frog unit -the design is different than a typical inline chlorinator. It would be fairly simple to swap it out tho, you could put in an inexpensive one.

"The frog system was only run for 2 months (and off and on through the winter) after a total water fill."

If this was a fresh fill and only the mineral cartridge was used over the winter then the CYA at 0 is prob accurate, if there was no bacpac in the unit. I doubt the mineral level is very high with one cartridge over a few months.

 

[kcjonz]

Pulled the mineral pak, vacuumed the pool and backwashed.

Then added 6 lbs of CYA and 2 gallons of 6% bleach.

I'll test the CYA again in 4-5 days.

How long until the bleach is circulated and FC can be accurately tested?

 

[duraleigh]

Bleach distributes pretty quickly. Probably an hour should give you a reasonable reading.

Are you sure you put in 2 gal? Most of those jugs are odd sized....182 oz for the big size...around 90 (I think) for the smaller.

 

[Butterfly]

How long until the bleach is circulated and FC can be accurately tested?

Generally, half hour or so should be enough; however, colder water slows down all chem reactions.

I think I'd wait at least an hour.

ETA:L oops, typing at the same time again...

 

[kcjonz]

Bleach distributes pretty quickly. Probably an hour should give you a reasonable reading.

Are you sure you put in 2 gal? Most of those jugs are odd sized....182 oz for the big size...around 90 (I think) for the smaller.

I put one and a half of the 182oz, so around 2 gallons.

According to the pool calc it should put me around 4-5.

 

[duraleigh]

Don't be too surprised if it tests lower than that. I suspect you might have some residual organics (but not much) in your pool that will consume a little of that chlorine very quickly.

 

[kcjonz]

TA is very likely a testing error, I'd disregard it for now.

I tested my TA again and got 20 again.

The sample turned from green to red instantly with the addition of one drop of Alkalinity 2, then back to green when swirled.

After 2 drops it turned red and stayed red.

Why do you think it is a testing error at 20?

 

[JasonLion]

It sure sounds like you are doing the TA test correctly. I suggest raising TA to around 70 with baking soda right away. Low TA allows the PH to change way to easily, which can lead to a variety of problems.

 

[duraleigh]

Why do you think it is a testing error at 20?

It simply seemed abnormally low from what we typically see on the forum.

However, you certainly are doing the test correctly and, like Jason, I think it would be prudent to go ahead and bring it up now that you have confirmed it really is 20.