Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: First Test Numbers...

  1. Back To Top    #1
    svenpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    820

    First Test Numbers...

    I received my K-2006 last night and did my first readings tonight...

    FC: 10
    CC: 0
    pH: 7.6
    TA: 250
    CH: 200
    CYA: 100

    So am I correct in thinking that if I need to get my CYA down by half (or more), than I would have to dump half (or more) of my water and refill? Ouch! I guess I would want to do that first before trying to fix anything else.

    What changes if I decide to live with a high CYA, other than higher levels of FC? Does it increase my CH demand after the level of FC is initially raised?

    Is it ok to use a swizzle stick to stir the samples? I don't seem to have much luck swirling and getting stuff to mix. It seems like it would be ok, as some people use those magnetic stirrers.

    Thanks!
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry
    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    28,418

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    I received my K-2006 last night and did my first readings tonight...

    FC: 10
    CC: 0
    pH: 7.6
    TA: 250
    CH: 200
    CYA: 100

    So am I correct in thinking that if I need to get my CYA down by half (or more), than I would have to dump half (or more) of my water and refill? Ouch! I guess I would want to do that first before trying to fix anything else.

    What changes if I decide to live with a high CYA, other than higher levels of FC? Does it increase my CH demand after the level of FC is initially raised?

    Is it ok to use a swizzle stick to stir the samples? I don't seem to have much luck swirling and getting stuff to mix. It seems like it would be ok, as some people use those magnetic stirrers.

    Thanks!
    1. Yes, it will require at least a 50% drain to get your CYA to 50....sometimes it requires a little more drain thanthat to actually get it all the way to 50

    2. Yes, adjust CYA (if you decide) before you do anything else.

    3. Maintaining the high levels of FC is the primary issue. Your chlorine demand will not be affected too much one way or the other but you will probably use a little more. (Use Cl if you abbreviate chlorine.....CH is commonly for Calcium Hardness)

    4. I'd say a swizzle stick is OK. Rinse it very thoroughly or get a new one between tests to ensure nothing is contaminated is probably a good idea.

    You didn't ask but I suspect that TA test may have an error. Taylor notes a problem on that TA test involving static electricity. You can research it here on this forum or go to the Taylor website but I wouldn't be surprised if your TA is actually quite a bit lower....more like 150 or so.

    It may seem pretty easy to simply elevate your chlorine and live with the high CYA but most of us find it to be a PITA and are always happy when we have drained and lowered it down into a manageable level.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cupertino, CA
    Posts
    1,966

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Here in drought country, replacing half the water in a 21k gallon pool can be seen as unneighborly by the water company. If you can swing it, doing it all at once is actually the most efficient in terms of total amount of water needed, although not necessarily in dollars. Otherwise, you might want to replace maybe 10% per month. After about 6 months you'd have replaced close to half the original water.

    And in the meantime, take full advantage of the rains while they last to help lower your levels.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Richard320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
    Posts
    15,422

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    Here in drought country, replacing half the water in a 21k gallon pool can be seen as unneighborly by the water company.
    EXACTLY!


    If you can swing it, doing it all at once is actually the most efficient in terms of total amount of water needed, although not necessarily in dollars. Otherwise, you might want to replace maybe 10% per month. After about 6 months you'd have replaced close to half the original water.

    And in the meantime, take full advantage of the rains while they last to help lower your levels.
    --paulr
    Yes, rain is our friend. No CYA, No CH. The other stuff can be dealt with.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Flower Mound, TX
    Posts
    5,062

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Is it ok to use a swizzle stick to stir the samples? I don't seem to have much luck swirling and getting stuff to mix. It seems like it would be ok, as some people use those magnetic stirrers.
    I keep a couple of plastic soda straws in my kit to use to stir samples. Once finished, I just rinse them along with everything else and put them back in the kit.

    Unless you have a magnetic stirrer (I don't), doing the CH test can be a pain. Stirring the sample with something sure helps.
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

  6. Back To Top    #6
    svenpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    820

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    ...And in the meantime, take full advantage of the rains while they last to help lower your levels.
    What exactly do you recommend to take full advantage of the rain? It is POURING right now.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

  7. Back To Top    #7
    svenpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    820

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Would borates have any influence on where the CYA should be kept? I am planning on doing borates, and am waiting for my lamotte strips to arrive. I suspect that there may be borates in there because after three months where I ignored the pool and the FC was probably at 0 it still looks great. Either that or I am blessed.

    Also, should I be concerned about effects of draining half the pool. I read about floating the liner, but I am reasonably sure that it is plaster. Is there a definitive way to determine what the pool is made of? Is cracking an issue?
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

  8. Back To Top    #8
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Would borates have any influence on where the CYA should be kept? I am planning on doing borates, and am waiting for my lamotte strips to arrive. I suspect that there may be borates in there because after three months where I ignored the pool and the FC was probably at 0 it still looks great. Either that or I am blessed.

    Also, should I be concerned about effects of draining half the pool. I read about floating the liner, but I am reasonably sure that it is plaster. Is there a definitive way to determine what the pool is made of? Is cracking an issue?
    If there are borates present already it could be helping to inhibit algae growth, and you could keep your CYA a bit higher if you chose to, and if the FC dropped below your min it would possibly take a bit longer for a problem to arise than a pool without borates.

    You can usually tell a liner pool, it tends to have a pattern, or be a brighter blue color, and it's very smooth to the touch, where as plaster will feel rough. A liner pool at the top will have some flexibility and give if you push on it where it gets inserted into the pool wall. Cracking is unlikely unless the plaster surface was left exposed to harsh sun and heat for extended periods.

    You could drain down safely about 1/3 retest and see where you are at, I managed with 70 for a while my first season BBB.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  9. Back To Top    #9
    polyvue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, California USA
    Posts
    1,215

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    ...And in the meantime, take full advantage of the rains while they last to help lower your levels.
    What exactly do you recommend to take full advantage of the rain? It is POURING right now.
    svenpup,

    No matter what type of in-ground pool you have, don't drain more than 10% this week... there's been way too much rain! My semi-annual 15% drain was "due" last month but I've waited because of the higher than normal rainfall. You can safely drain 50% or more when there's been no rain for several weeks AND you know that your water table is well below the pool's bottom excavation.

    If you have a spigot on your equipment pad, you can use this while pumping to bring the water level down a bit and let the rain refill whatever water is lost. I use a submersible pump to achieve the same thing.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

  10. Back To Top    #10
    svenpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    820

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    ...If you have a spigot on your equipment pad, you can use this while pumping to bring the water level down a bit and let the rain refill whatever water is lost...
    Is it ok to use the filter pump to drain the level to below the skimmer?
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

  11. Back To Top    #11
    polyvue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, California USA
    Posts
    1,215

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Quote Originally Posted by polyvue
    ...If you have a spigot on your equipment pad, you can use this while pumping to bring the water level down a bit and let the rain refill whatever water is lost...
    Is it ok to use the filter pump to drain the level to below the skimmer?
    Well, that's a judgement call, isn't it? Have you calculated what percentage of water that would represent? In my pool that would only be a few inches and I would feel safe doing that... If you do this, don't forget to divert all suction to the main drain while you're pumping so the pump won't lose prime by sucking in air.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    You don't want to drain a vinyl liner pool lower than one foot of water in the shallow end. Otherwise the liner could shift, and it might not go back into place correctly.

    You can use the main pool pump to drain below the skimmer, but it may get a little complicated. If you have a main drain, you need to adjust the valves so the pump draws only from the main drain. If you don't have a main drain you need to adjust the valves so the pump draws from a single skimmer and then connect the vacuum hose to that skimmer. In either case, if you stop pumping you will lose prime and not be able to start again. When using a vacuum hose, it often helps to use a cover pump to pump water into the skimmer, on top of the vacuum hose connection. That will prevent an air leak from causing you to lose prime.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13
    svenpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    820

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Wow, I never thought this would be so complicated. Here are some pics of my setup. There are two pipes that feed the pump, but only one has a valve. I turned off the valve, and it didn't have any noticeable effect on the skimmer (sucking through the skimmer either way). In the bottom of the skimmer there is only one hole.

    Does this mean that I can't drain below the skimmer level with the filter pump without losing prime?
    What happens if I lose prime, and what does it take to re-prime the pump?
    I assume that the thing that looks like a drain on the bottom of the pool in the third pic is the main drain?

    The garden hose heading off to the left in the first pic is what I have been using to drain.

    [attachment=2:27cifx0l]IMG_3506small.jpg[/attachment:27cifx0l]
    [attachment=1:27cifx0l]IMG_3507small.jpg[/attachment:27cifx0l]
    [attachment=0:27cifx0l]IMG_3508small.jpg[/attachment:27cifx0l]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

  14. Back To Top    #14
    polyvue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, California USA
    Posts
    1,215

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Wow, I never thought this would be so complicated. Here are some pics of my setup. There are two pipes that feed the pump, but only one has a valve. I turned off the valve, and it didn't have any noticeable effect on the skimmer (sucking through the skimmer either way). In the bottom of the skimmer there is only one hole.

    I don't see a valve to redirect suction, so this could be a problem. The value you shut is probably the feed from another skimmer or the main drain. The garden hose is fine, but you don't want to drain to the point where the water drops into the skimmer... suggest a submersible pump to go further. If the pump loses prime you'll have to prime it manually by feeding it water (via hose or bucket of water poured in) and may have to also feed the skimmer... but best to avoid.

    Does this mean that I can't drain below the skimmer level with the filter pump without losing prime?
    What happens if I lose prime, and what does it take to re-prime the pump?
    I assume that the thing that looks like a drain on the bottom of the pool in the third pic is the main drain?

    The garden hose heading off to the left in the first pic is what I have been using to drain.
    14,555 gal in-ground 16'x29' white plaster Pool w/spa (2007); Goldline Aqua Logic AQL-PS-8 control w/Aqua Cell 15 Salt Water Chlorination (SWCG); Hayward TriStar 1HP (1.85 SF) main / 1.5HP (1.60 SF) spa pumps; Hayward Swimclear cart filter C4025, ColorLogic LED lights; Tankless SP-18-4 electric heater; Polaris 280 cleaner.
    __
    View of spiral galaxy in Ursa Major NGC6217 - Hubble Telescope 2009

  15. Back To Top    #15
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    You can still use the vacuum hose approach.

    Losing prime means that the pump chamber gets full of air and the pump will no longer draw in water. If left running without prime the pump can overheat and damage it's self. If the water level is high enough you can re-establish prime by filling the pump chamber with water and starting the pump. Once the water level gets too low, typically several inches below the skimmer, it becomes impossible to re-establish prime without refilling the pool.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cupertino, CA
    Posts
    1,966

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    ...And in the meantime, take full advantage of the rains while they last to help lower your levels.
    What exactly do you recommend to take full advantage of the rain? It is POURING right now.
    Rain is free fill water, but only if the pool has enough freeboard left to hold it. If you see 2" predicted, and you have faith that's correct, then draining 2" before the rain starts is the most efficient way to take advantage of the free fill water. Not that draining afterward is bad, but you don't get the absolute maximum benefit.

    If you're looking to lower levels, really the only bad outcome to rain is if the pool overflows, or (for an inground) the yard overflows into the pool. (If you drain 2" and only get 1/2" rain, that's not exactly great, but it won't damage anything either, including your water bill.)
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

  17. Back To Top    #17
    svenpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    820

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    So, I ran out to the hardware store and got a submersible utility pump...at this point what is another $80? My original plan was to do the refill all at once, but I think I am going to go the conservative way and do it in three or four stages. I really appreciate everyone's help. TFP is fantastic!

    It is amazing to me how ignorant the majority of pool owners must be. This house came with a walmart test kit that can only test Cl to 3ppm, a pool with CYA > 100, and a case full of tri-chlor tabs. If I hadn't found this site I would be making things worse now, instead of getting a handle on it and become an educated pool owner.

    Thanks again!
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Richard320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
    Posts
    15,422

    Re: First Test Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by svenpup
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    ...And in the meantime, take full advantage of the rains while they last to help lower your levels.
    What exactly do you recommend to take full advantage of the rain? It is POURING right now.
    I put one of those flexible downspout tubes (actually a couple hooked together) aiming right into my pool. A nylon will stop the bits of grit that come off the shingles, but as I have discovered, won't stop finer stuff. I had some nice drifts on the bottom this evening. Most all of it is safely trapped in the filter now.

    Do the math: if the back half of the roof covers 4X as much surface as the pool, and you get one inch of rain... that's 1 inch from the pool and 4 inches from the roof - 5 inches gained! Some here advise against using roof runoff. I probably wouldn't if I had a new roof that would bleed oils from the asphalt. But my roof is several years old and well-seasoned. I see no oil slick nor rainbow sheen on the surface of my pool, only the above-mentioned dirt.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •